From what I've sen of the GUI, cammand line is starting to look pretty good. In the old DOS6.X days things were simple...no freezing, er screen lock ups etc.
About the only thing that would happen is "bad cammand or file name" if you can't type like me.
Of the computers I have bought, this has been the most overall fun and least hassle to run. PowerMac with OS-X either Panther or Tiger ...
Tiger has some small improvements that help me out some, though less than the glossy advertising would lead you to believe. The best tool for the moment, and olny for me and wwhat I am doing right now is spotlight. I can put in messages or parts of messages and the tool brings up the source files and the log files that have the message.
Though I still do manual dumpster dives, but when I am trying to track down where a set of messages comes from ...
Win XP is what windows 95 was supposed to be... I guess 10 years late is not bad for Microsoft (which company I destest ... just for full disclosure, and along those lines, Judge of the MS trial says he has seen nothing from them that changed his mind ... he would break them up today too ...)
Anyway, if you have a REAL long memory, the Apple Lisa was a killer PC, 2M RAM when most computers were sold with 256K at the top end. Full multi-tasking OS, and System 7, one of the first office suites ...
The advantage over previous versions of Mac OS is that loads of linux stuff will work on BSD and therefore will work on a Mac.
real live example: a friend has a Mac and a windows box, and his printer is on the windows box. To print things he had been copying them across over a network.
Another friend was there tonite, who knows more about networking and linux than either of us put together. He says "why are you doing that, if it networks it must be running Samba and you can network printers in Samba".
So he sits down at the Mac, opens a command line window, types about four lines commands, comes back to the desktop and the Mac will print on the windows printer.
"I didn't think you knew anything about Macs?".
"No I don't, but I know how to set up Samba in Linux, and I've just discovered it is set up the same in BSD."
Hi Mr. Buck,
Well the very first PC I ever had was a Mac Plus With a hard drive, it did ok for word processing, but not much else. My brother-law, gave me my first 386-SX DOS based system.
Back then the PC's still had more games and app then the Apple/Mac did. I don't like Microsoft at all,(has mad me a little bit of money). But the OS just has to much over head. DOS based with a 32bit overlay.
Hi Mr. Buck,
Well the very first PC I ever had was a Mac Plus With a hard drive, it did ok for word processing, but not much else. My brother-law, gave me my first 386-SX DOS based system.
Back then the PC's still had more games and app then the Apple/Mac did. I don't like Microsoft at all,(has mad me a little bit of money). But the OS just has to much over head. DOS based with a 32bit overlay.
My first computer was an Ohio Scientific ...
I mounted the boards in a wooden cabinet because I could not afford the expensive S100 cards and the case. I used to drive up to Frys in the bay area to buy parts as they had the best prices.
My first "monitor" was a B&W TV set that had a "hack" into the video circuits. My first disk drive was a 8 inch floppy drive that cost me over $1,000 but was a leap oveer the casette loading where you would spend 2 hours loading the basic interp, then anotheer 2 hours loading the program to run ... ugh ...
I do work on the Unix terminal all the time and the Mac IS Unix ... I mean, I use a grep tool to look in log files for messages that I have not seen yet. So, I drop in a log, hit it with ./fred and I get the lines printed I have not listed. So, if the log has a line in it I don't have, I can see if the log has the sequence of messages I want.
I have a number of logs where I have the ONE line of the error, but I am trying to establish the context of the error.
Anyway, you paid for one version of Unix, OS-X, why get rid of the good parts and install another Unix.
Though I sure wish they would compile the 4.45 version of the Mac client.
Hi Mr. Buck,
My point of referance is from Windows, you would think that a commercial (paid) product would work well...seeing as how you want a good reputation. Now, I don't know how well the curren MACS are, but linux, and other UNIX like products seem to be more durable, and less flaky(sp?).
At the moment I wish all of you lived next door so I could bother you with an infinite number of stupid quastions.
Hey ~~gravywavy, Mr. Buck,
What do you think of the idea, of getting a new Mac- dumping the Installed OS and installing Free BSD?
I agree with Paul, on the technical front, and also agree (but more hesitantly) on the political level.
Technically, in my opinion, as someone who has never owned a Mac and always envied their GUI (the Graphical User Interface, ie their alternative to Windows) I think the lates Mac is the best of both worlds. Best command line operating system (cos its Unix) plus best GUI.
A Unix box is not limited to a single GUI, linux offers a choice of KDE and Gnome for example, and if you really wanted to you could probably get a local linuxhead to show you how to make the Mac offer you a choice between all three - KDE, Gnome, and the Mac GUI.
I'd also buy the Mac now, not after they go to the x86 platform. Technically I like their traditional hardware better than x86 (even AMD, sorry) so I am sadt to see them take a backward step (in my technical opinion).
Politically: if you object to monopolies in principle, then Apple are just as monopolistic in their behaviour as Microsoft. OK, Apple is smaller, but that is not by their choice, and they love to change that! If Apple were top of the market they'd be as bad as MS are now, in my opinion. So I could respect someone who wanted to avoid giving them money.
But then I figure if you don't want to give them money, why buy an operating system and throw it away? Once they have the dosh do they care if you use the product? Personally, if I had the money I'd buy the Mac, accept that that would be a compromise with my politics, and keep the supplied OS cos its seriously nice. We all make compromises every day and that is one I'd rush to make as soon as I can afford to.
As with all political views, your opinion may vary from mine: no problem.
The advantage with Apple is that they control the hardware and software. This is the main reason that the stability is there. Some people have a real hard time with windows, in many cases because they buy cheap hardware. This is not helped by the OS gradually corrupting itself.
I usually run Norton utilities on my "biggest" computer, right now the Xeon. And I use the clean-up / repair tools in norton. Two weeks from now, even if I do little or nothing on the computer, the OS will have accumulated as many as 100 bad keys in the registry.
So, a Mac is stabler than the PC for two reasons ...
I agree also about the PowerPC chip being better. But I put my plans on the shelf to buy another Mac because of the announced change. I have owned abandoned hardware before, not going to do that again. So, the next computer will be, most likely another 3.4 GHz dual Xeon ... after that (or same time not sure) I will get a lower end PC with Linux so I can start to play in the Linux pool to improve my writing about the Linux end of BOINC.
From what I've sen of the
)
From what I've sen of the GUI, cammand line is starting to look pretty good. In the old DOS6.X days things were simple...no freezing, er screen lock ups etc.
About the only thing that would happen is "bad cammand or file name" if you can't type like me.
Greg
What he said ... :) Of the
)
What he said ... :)
Of the computers I have bought, this has been the most overall fun and least hassle to run. PowerMac with OS-X either Panther or Tiger ...
Tiger has some small improvements that help me out some, though less than the glossy advertising would lead you to believe. The best tool for the moment, and olny for me and wwhat I am doing right now is spotlight. I can put in messages or parts of messages and the tool brings up the source files and the log files that have the message.
Though I still do manual dumpster dives, but when I am trying to track down where a set of messages comes from ...
Win XP is what windows 95 was supposed to be... I guess 10 years late is not bad for Microsoft (which company I destest ... just for full disclosure, and along those lines, Judge of the MS trial says he has seen nothing from them that changed his mind ... he would break them up today too ...)
Anyway, if you have a REAL long memory, the Apple Lisa was a killer PC, 2M RAM when most computers were sold with 256K at the top end. Full multi-tasking OS, and System 7, one of the first office suites ...
RE: The advantage over
)
real live example: a friend has a Mac and a windows box, and his printer is on the windows box. To print things he had been copying them across over a network.
Another friend was there tonite, who knows more about networking and linux than either of us put together. He says "why are you doing that, if it networks it must be running Samba and you can network printers in Samba".
So he sits down at the Mac, opens a command line window, types about four lines commands, comes back to the desktop and the Mac will print on the windows printer.
"I didn't think you knew anything about Macs?".
"No I don't, but I know how to set up Samba in Linux, and I've just discovered it is set up the same in BSD."
~~gravywavy
Hi Mr. Buck, Well the very
)
Hi Mr. Buck,
Well the very first PC I ever had was a Mac Plus With a hard drive, it did ok for word processing, but not much else. My brother-law, gave me my first 386-SX DOS based system.
Back then the PC's still had more games and app then the Apple/Mac did. I don't like Microsoft at all,(has mad me a little bit of money). But the OS just has to much over head. DOS based with a 32bit overlay.
Greg
RE: Hi Mr. Buck, Well the
)
My first computer was an Ohio Scientific ...
I mounted the boards in a wooden cabinet because I could not afford the expensive S100 cards and the case. I used to drive up to Frys in the bay area to buy parts as they had the best prices.
My first "monitor" was a B&W TV set that had a "hack" into the video circuits. My first disk drive was a 8 inch floppy drive that cost me over $1,000 but was a leap oveer the casette loading where you would spend 2 hours loading the basic interp, then anotheer 2 hours loading the program to run ... ugh ...
Hey ~~gravywavy, Mr.
)
Hey ~~gravywavy, Mr. Buck,
What do you think of the idea, of getting a new Mac- dumping the Installed OS and installing Free BSD?
Greg
It is Paul ... Why? I
)
It is Paul ...
Why?
I do work on the Unix terminal all the time and the Mac IS Unix ... I mean, I use a grep tool to look in log files for messages that I have not seen yet. So, I drop in a log, hit it with ./fred and I get the lines printed I have not listed. So, if the log has a line in it I don't have, I can see if the log has the sequence of messages I want.
I have a number of logs where I have the ONE line of the error, but I am trying to establish the context of the error.
Anyway, you paid for one version of Unix, OS-X, why get rid of the good parts and install another Unix.
Though I sure wish they would compile the 4.45 version of the Mac client.
Hi Mr. Buck, My point of
)
Hi Mr. Buck,
My point of referance is from Windows, you would think that a commercial (paid) product would work well...seeing as how you want a good reputation. Now, I don't know how well the curren MACS are, but linux, and other UNIX like products seem to be more durable, and less flaky(sp?).
At the moment I wish all of you lived next door so I could bother you with an infinite number of stupid quastions.
Greg
RE: Hey ~~gravywavy, Mr.
)
I agree with Paul, on the technical front, and also agree (but more hesitantly) on the political level.
Technically, in my opinion, as someone who has never owned a Mac and always envied their GUI (the Graphical User Interface, ie their alternative to Windows) I think the lates Mac is the best of both worlds. Best command line operating system (cos its Unix) plus best GUI.
A Unix box is not limited to a single GUI, linux offers a choice of KDE and Gnome for example, and if you really wanted to you could probably get a local linuxhead to show you how to make the Mac offer you a choice between all three - KDE, Gnome, and the Mac GUI.
I'd also buy the Mac now, not after they go to the x86 platform. Technically I like their traditional hardware better than x86 (even AMD, sorry) so I am sadt to see them take a backward step (in my technical opinion).
Politically: if you object to monopolies in principle, then Apple are just as monopolistic in their behaviour as Microsoft. OK, Apple is smaller, but that is not by their choice, and they love to change that! If Apple were top of the market they'd be as bad as MS are now, in my opinion. So I could respect someone who wanted to avoid giving them money.
But then I figure if you don't want to give them money, why buy an operating system and throw it away? Once they have the dosh do they care if you use the product? Personally, if I had the money I'd buy the Mac, accept that that would be a compromise with my politics, and keep the supplied OS cos its seriously nice. We all make compromises every day and that is one I'd rush to make as soon as I can afford to.
As with all political views, your opinion may vary from mine: no problem.
~~gravywavy
The advantage with Apple is
)
The advantage with Apple is that they control the hardware and software. This is the main reason that the stability is there. Some people have a real hard time with windows, in many cases because they buy cheap hardware. This is not helped by the OS gradually corrupting itself.
I usually run Norton utilities on my "biggest" computer, right now the Xeon. And I use the clean-up / repair tools in norton. Two weeks from now, even if I do little or nothing on the computer, the OS will have accumulated as many as 100 bad keys in the registry.
So, a Mac is stabler than the PC for two reasons ...
I agree also about the PowerPC chip being better. But I put my plans on the shelf to buy another Mac because of the announced change. I have owned abandoned hardware before, not going to do that again. So, the next computer will be, most likely another 3.4 GHz dual Xeon ... after that (or same time not sure) I will get a lower end PC with Linux so I can start to play in the Linux pool to improve my writing about the Linux end of BOINC.