I couldn't agree more with Mike. The most important thing is the science, which originally brought me here, as I am a primary school science teacher. However, I would lie to say that the whole credit thing did not influence my commitment in to the project (and BOINC), as part of a game with myself, how high will I achieve in comparison with the other BOINC users allover the world.
Of course, if it wasn't for the science AND the feeling of sharing with thousands other users in the world, I would not continue.
Do not forget that the EAH community "owns" one of the most powerful supercomputers in the world.
Keep crunching
Regards
Constantinos
Gravity increases significantly in Autumn, because apples fall in large numbers during that time!
Hello Bodley! :-)
The brilliant thing about this credit thing is that it is not a dialectic choice! You are right. The competitive mechanism can indeed induce people to contribute regardless of details of motivation. Indeed each of us has a personal flavour of impetus for being here, and the technical result is bland to this. There is not, nor should there be perceived to be, any moral high ground here. I feel that as we engage this common activity, we could also celebrate each other's participation regardless of the path(s) leading to it. In fact alot of contributors identify fun, or some variant of it, as their reward. I know I do! It is possible that we can all have fun, however defined. :-)
As I've said before, I don't care about credit except as a benchmark for progress. I'm evidently a science nut. But I care that you care about credit though! By helping others engage in their projects we can all win. I don't decry other projects either.
Actually I reckon distributed computing would form a fascinating topic for some sociology research, if it hasn't already!
Cheers, Mike.
Hey! Mike ! ... you silver-tongued devil you!!!!!! :-D
I totally agree with everything you say ... however -
It is very possible that the "plupart" of those crunchers here and elsewhere are here for the competition ... for the seeing of their efforts recorded ... with totally meaningless figures and in some cases ... nice little pieces of paper with figures denoting their achievements.
In some circles this is laughable - and I accept that I am to be laughed at although I would NOT go so far as to get myself a 'sustifficate'!!!!!!! But I DO feel that there is a valid point to competition and that it greatly assists the Programme as a whole.
Any one person only REALLY needs one computer, surely. This to do either his personal stuff or his corporate stuff.
If you take a stroll through crunchers details ... I wonder if you have thought " ... why have SO many people got SOOO many computers working on ... (this and other projects) ... ?"
I will wager you, that the reason a contributor has 2/3/4/5/10/15/20 computers crunching away comes down to one single word ...
COMPETITION ... to see his name at the head of the list!
We ALL would like to be the one whose computer finds ET. So it follows that - more computers, more chance. So it also follows that - greater computing power, more chance. (I also accept that it is possible, even probable, that a guy with a Mac SE, crunching one WU every year can pick the prize!). This competition, I believe, is the life-blood of a project such as this. The more competition we can generate, the better it will be for the whole search.
Presently we are coming from a situation where results have been quick (in terms of user 'oomph' factor). Now we are in a phase of long long long crunch periods with nothing happening to boost the morale of the competitor. These guys, used to crunching 100 (and far more) units a day are now down to getting single figure scalps in the same time.
Is this an incentive for the competitor?
OK ... so, as the purists here would have it ... " ... forget about RAC and cobblestones ..."
Were this and any other project NOT to have the competitors on board, it is my contention that you would be crunching well into the next 2 or 3 decades to do what we can do before the end of this one.
In conclusion I would say, that your average guy like me ... competitor ... is a FAR greater potent force in the search that we are all engaged in than the 'purist cruncher' ...
That is why I think that simple, silly,meaningless figures mean so much.
With the best of regards
David
I couldn't agree more with Mike. The most important thing is the science, which originally brought me here, as I am a primary school science teacher. However, I would lie to say that the whole credit thing did not influence my commitment in to the project (and BOINC), as part of a game with myself, how high will I achieve in comparison with the other BOINC users allover the world.
Of course, if it wasn't for the science AND the feeling of sharing with thousands other users in the world, I would not continue.
Do not forget that the EAH community "owns" one of the most powerful supercomputers in the world.
Keep crunching
Regards
Constantinos
Ok ... ok ...
Now ... remove the computers belonging to the competitors ... and see how it affects the throughput of the "science buffs"
Doesn't take long to evaluate where the strength is ...
IMHO ...
If you read very carefully my thoughts you will notice that I agree with you, as well. Competition is the one (strong) motive, but if it wasn;t for the science I wouldn't be here in the first place.
Keep crunching (as you are some 50K credits below me) - just kidding!
Regards
Constantinos
Gravity increases significantly in Autumn, because apples fall in large numbers during that time!
Hello, Bodley!
If you read very carefully my thoughts you will notice that I agree with you, as well. Competition is the one (strong) motive, but if it wasn;t for the science I wouldn't be here in the first place.
Keep crunching (as you are some 50K credits below me) - just kidding!
Regards
Constantinos
Hey! Mike ! ... you silver-tongued devil you!!!!!! :-D
Ah, tis my job, herding these cats.... :-)
Quote:
I totally agree with everything you say ... however -
It is very possible that the "plupart" of those crunchers here and elsewhere are here for the competition ... for the seeing of their efforts recorded ... with totally meaningless figures and in some cases ... nice little pieces of paper with figures denoting their achievements.
In some circles this is laughable - and I accept that I am to be laughed at although I would NOT go so far as to get myself a 'sustifficate'!!!!!!! But I DO feel that there is a valid point to competition and that it greatly assists the Programme as a whole.
Any one person only REALLY needs one computer, surely. This to do either his personal stuff or his corporate stuff.
If you take a stroll through crunchers details ... I wonder if you have thought " ... why have SO many people got SOOO many computers working on ... (this and other projects) ... ?"
I will wager you, that the reason a contributor has 2/3/4/5/10/15/20 computers crunching away comes down to one single word ...
COMPETITION ... to see his name at the head of the list!
We ALL would like to be the one whose computer finds ET. So it follows that - more computers, more chance. So it also follows that - greater computing power, more chance. (I also accept that it is possible, even probable, that a guy with a Mac SE, crunching one WU every year can pick the prize!). This competition, I believe, is the life-blood of a project such as this. The more competition we can generate, the better it will be for the whole search.
Presently we are coming from a situation where results have been quick (in terms of user 'oomph' factor). Now we are in a phase of long long long crunch periods with nothing happening to boost the morale of the competitor. These guys, used to crunching 100 (and far more) units a day are now down to getting single figure scalps in the same time.
Is this an incentive for the competitor?
OK ... so, as the purists here would have it ... " ... forget about RAC and cobblestones ..."
Were this and any other project NOT to have the competitors on board, it is my contention that you would be crunching well into the next 2 or 3 decades to do what we can do before the end of this one.
In conclusion I would say, that your average guy like me ... competitor ... is a FAR greater potent force in the search that we are all engaged in than the 'purist cruncher' ...
That is why I think that simple, silly,meaningless figures mean so much.
With the best of regards
David
[edit] punctuation
So true, my man! Certainly there's not enough science nuts to float the project's aims in a reasonable timeframe. Credit and competition do bring such firm spirit, and hard results, to the fore. I was quite surprised to find, for instance, that their are serious efforts to use X-Boxes, PlayStations and graphics cards to bear on the crunching. Let's not forget the supernova brilliance of Akos ( all hail!! ) in refactoring code on a per processor stepping basis! Didn't that ramp up the interest all round?
E@H is very plural, a short visit to the Cafe will confirm that there are many who appear to care not a jot for either science or credits. They like the pleasant interaction or whatever pushes their social buttons. It would be safe to say that the Einstein name has a simple but powerful pulling power too ( dare I say gravitic? ). He has become such an icon of civilization.
So "come on down!" all you 'average' guys and gals, grab those processors, chuck in BOINC, select E@H, and start churning. ( That way sneaky blokes like me can get the science done quicker while we all have fun ).
Cheers, Mike.
NB. Doesn't the 'sound' of two black holesshirt-fronting tickle even a little interest in you? :-)
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
I was wondering what the increase in "integration time T" is for the S5 data compared to that which we were crunching with the S4 data? I'm assuming that the optimizations allowed for an increase in the time T so that we can look at a finer grid in the sky?
And am also assuming that this is the reason that even though the S5 science application is really faster, the WU completion times are longer than with Akos S4 apps because we're searching under a higher "resolution"....
So true, my man! Certainly there's not enough science nuts to float the project's aims in a reasonable timeframe. Credit and competition do bring such firm spirit, and hard results, to the fore. I was quite surprised to find, for instance, that their are serious efforts to use X-Boxes, PlayStations and graphics cards to bear on the crunching. Let's not forget the supernova brilliance of Akos ( all hail!! ) in refactoring code on a per processor stepping basis! Didn't that ramp up the interest all round?
E@H is very plural, a short visit to the Cafe will confirm that there are many who appear to care not a jot for either science or credits. They like the pleasant interaction or whatever pushes their social buttons. It would be safe to say that the Einstein name has a simple but powerful pulling power too ( dare I say gravitic? ). He has become such an icon of civilization.
So "come on down!" all you 'average' guys and gals, grab those processors, chuck in BOINC, select E@H, and start churning. ( That way sneaky blokes like me can get the science done quicker while we all have fun ).
Here's one more reason why I run BOINC.
When I walk around the office and see idle PCs, I think, "what a waste". With a little cajoling (and sometimes, rank helps) I manage to install BOINC on most of the machines around me, from humble Katmais to speedy Prescotts (no dual core CPUs yet).
Since office PCs aren't a particularly stressed-out lot, the science crunched goes a long way in getting bang-for-the-buck, both for underutilized machines and for the electricity continuously trickling through those idle cycles.
Since office PCs aren't a particularly stressed-out lot, the science crunched goes a long way in getting bang-for-the-buck, both for underutilized machines and for the electricity continuously trickling through those idle cycles.
;-)
Ahhhh soooo Even though I feel an idle computer is being wasted(The owner of said un-stressed computers needs to know at least why he is paying more and why power supplies and fans are wearing out much sooner!)...I also believe you are stealing electricity and causing your company Mucho electric bills( a cpu at 100% vs. idle uses quantum more juice)...why does everyone act like electricity was free....I wish it was ...But that is what free energy is all about that the man is holding down....... Lookie here...Every $ of cost that I have contributed for DC by me has been paid for by me....Wonder how many big rollers can say that....Too many people think that there are no cost to their actions now-adays or don't care
One of my computerscomputers reached daily quota 7 WU per day. Others still have 32 WU - why did you change the quota ? The system performed couple failures with transition to S5. I am waiting now for downloading new wu tomorrow.
I couldn't agree more with
)
I couldn't agree more with Mike. The most important thing is the science, which originally brought me here, as I am a primary school science teacher. However, I would lie to say that the whole credit thing did not influence my commitment in to the project (and BOINC), as part of a game with myself, how high will I achieve in comparison with the other BOINC users allover the world.
Of course, if it wasn't for the science AND the feeling of sharing with thousands other users in the world, I would not continue.
Do not forget that the EAH community "owns" one of the most powerful supercomputers in the world.
Keep crunching
Regards
Constantinos
Gravity increases significantly in Autumn, because apples fall in large numbers during that time!
RE: Hello Bodley! :-) The
)
Hey! Mike ! ... you silver-tongued devil you!!!!!! :-D
I totally agree with everything you say ... however -
It is very possible that the "plupart" of those crunchers here and elsewhere are here for the competition ... for the seeing of their efforts recorded ... with totally meaningless figures and in some cases ... nice little pieces of paper with figures denoting their achievements.
In some circles this is laughable - and I accept that I am to be laughed at although I would NOT go so far as to get myself a 'sustifficate'!!!!!!! But I DO feel that there is a valid point to competition and that it greatly assists the Programme as a whole.
Any one person only REALLY needs one computer, surely. This to do either his personal stuff or his corporate stuff.
If you take a stroll through crunchers details ... I wonder if you have thought " ... why have SO many people got SOOO many computers working on ... (this and other projects) ... ?"
I will wager you, that the reason a contributor has 2/3/4/5/10/15/20 computers crunching away comes down to one single word ...
COMPETITION ... to see his name at the head of the list!
We ALL would like to be the one whose computer finds ET. So it follows that - more computers, more chance. So it also follows that - greater computing power, more chance. (I also accept that it is possible, even probable, that a guy with a Mac SE, crunching one WU every year can pick the prize!). This competition, I believe, is the life-blood of a project such as this. The more competition we can generate, the better it will be for the whole search.
Presently we are coming from a situation where results have been quick (in terms of user 'oomph' factor). Now we are in a phase of long long long crunch periods with nothing happening to boost the morale of the competitor. These guys, used to crunching 100 (and far more) units a day are now down to getting single figure scalps in the same time.
Is this an incentive for the competitor?
OK ... so, as the purists here would have it ... " ... forget about RAC and cobblestones ..."
Were this and any other project NOT to have the competitors on board, it is my contention that you would be crunching well into the next 2 or 3 decades to do what we can do before the end of this one.
In conclusion I would say, that your average guy like me ... competitor ... is a FAR greater potent force in the search that we are all engaged in than the 'purist cruncher' ...
That is why I think that simple, silly,meaningless figures mean so much.
With the best of regards
David
[edit] punctuation
RE: I couldn't agree more
)
Ok ... ok ...
Now ... remove the computers belonging to the competitors ... and see how it affects the throughput of the "science buffs"
Doesn't take long to evaluate where the strength is ...
IMHO ...
Hello, Bodley! If you read
)
Hello, Bodley!
If you read very carefully my thoughts you will notice that I agree with you, as well. Competition is the one (strong) motive, but if it wasn;t for the science I wouldn't be here in the first place.
Keep crunching (as you are some 50K credits below me) - just kidding!
Regards
Constantinos
Gravity increases significantly in Autumn, because apples fall in large numbers during that time!
RE: Hello, Bodley! If you
)
Hey! ...
I'll catch ya!!!!!!
;-)))
RE: Hey! Mike ! ... you
)
Ah, tis my job, herding these cats.... :-)
So true, my man! Certainly there's not enough science nuts to float the project's aims in a reasonable timeframe. Credit and competition do bring such firm spirit, and hard results, to the fore. I was quite surprised to find, for instance, that their are serious efforts to use X-Boxes, PlayStations and graphics cards to bear on the crunching. Let's not forget the supernova brilliance of Akos ( all hail!! ) in refactoring code on a per processor stepping basis! Didn't that ramp up the interest all round?
E@H is very plural, a short visit to the Cafe will confirm that there are many who appear to care not a jot for either science or credits. They like the pleasant interaction or whatever pushes their social buttons. It would be safe to say that the Einstein name has a simple but powerful pulling power too ( dare I say gravitic? ). He has become such an icon of civilization.
So "come on down!" all you 'average' guys and gals, grab those processors, chuck in BOINC, select E@H, and start churning. ( That way sneaky blokes like me can get the science done quicker while we all have fun ).
Cheers, Mike.
NB. Doesn't the 'sound' of two black holes shirt-fronting tickle even a little interest in you? :-)
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
I was wondering what the
)
I was wondering what the increase in "integration time T" is for the S5 data compared to that which we were crunching with the S4 data? I'm assuming that the optimizations allowed for an increase in the time T so that we can look at a finer grid in the sky?
And am also assuming that this is the reason that even though the S5 science application is really faster, the WU completion times are longer than with Akos S4 apps because we're searching under a higher "resolution"....
am I thinking correctly?
thanks!
RE: So true, my man!
)
Here's one more reason why I run BOINC.
When I walk around the office and see idle PCs, I think, "what a waste". With a little cajoling (and sometimes, rank helps) I manage to install BOINC on most of the machines around me, from humble Katmais to speedy Prescotts (no dual core CPUs yet).
Since office PCs aren't a particularly stressed-out lot, the science crunched goes a long way in getting bang-for-the-buck, both for underutilized machines and for the electricity continuously trickling through those idle cycles.
;-)
RE: Since office PCs
)
Ahhhh soooo Even though I feel an idle computer is being wasted(The owner of said un-stressed computers needs to know at least why he is paying more and why power supplies and fans are wearing out much sooner!)...I also believe you are stealing electricity and causing your company Mucho electric bills( a cpu at 100% vs. idle uses quantum more juice)...why does everyone act like electricity was free....I wish it was ...But that is what free energy is all about that the man is holding down....... Lookie here...Every $ of cost that I have contributed for DC by me has been paid for by me....Wonder how many big rollers can say that....Too many people think that there are no cost to their actions now-adays or don't care
One of my computerscomputers
)
One of my computerscomputers reached daily quota 7 WU per day. Others still have 32 WU - why did you change the quota ? The system performed couple failures with transition to S5. I am waiting now for downloading new wu tomorrow.