Some how this thread has reminded me of the Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner. That was a story of grief and compassion, the grief of the mariner and the compassion of the wedding guest. I wonder how many times the mariner said ‘there was a ship’ before someone tarried long enough to hear the rest of the story. I can understand the grief, the lack of empathy and compassion is beyond my comprehension. Can we on this board at least just respect the sense loss of so many obviously feel.
I agree.
And the same is true both ways.
Could the SETI@home orphans start to show some compassion for the guys on zero budget trying to move their project to another platform where they did have budget. There are only so many hours in a day, and if the project team had spent all of them on the classic boards there would have been no BOINC project to migrate to.
Have compassion on the guys trying to get the lifeboats built and then trying to get people into them, while all the time the passengers are blaming them for the ship sinking. UCB didn't pull the plug on SETI classic, the funders did.
Also, maybe the SETI classic folk (orphans and early switchers) might like to take pride in the fact that UCB chose not only to save the ship by going where the funding was; but also created that funding out of thin air by proposing the most generous thing that has ever happened in Distributed Computing - a project creating an infrastructure that allows other projects to work with them and even to work together without them.
Personally I am not interested in the science of SETI, and nor at present are the funders. I am very interested, and very grateful, to the original SETI team for moving on to give BOINC to the rest of us. For that -- and only for that in my personal opinion -- you guys deserve to keep your project.
So if compassion for overworked UCB people won't help you through your mourning, if pride in what those people have given the other projects in your name won't help you through your mourning, maybe you'd like to look at it this way.
Accepting the move to BOINC is the fee that SETI paid to keep doing their science at all. The open infrastructure pays your way.
Well, heck. Even though i've been running SAH so long it's been background noise to me, I was aware of BOINC even though it's come down to checking the site about once or twice a year to see if there was a client upgrade. If I was aware of it, it's hard to believe it was all that easy to completely miss.
Nope, what I think is the REAL bone of contention is not converting all those classic WU's and giving the switchover people some credit for all those years of work.
Here we are, crunching the same wu's for the same project with basically the same app running under BOINC but we lose everything. A Bad Call imho. Some kind of prorated partial credit could and should have been granted to switchover classic crunchers. There wouldn't BE a BOINC if we hadn't been there all those years, validating the DC concept. Neither the interest the proof or the grants would have been forthcoming without our loyalty, time, effort and a bit of money (for the electric if nothing else ;)) AND, be sure that's ALL we were doing. The chances of actually hearing a valid signal with a ground based antenna are so close to zero as to be the same thing.
You can say all you want about 'a new project' even though it's NOT from the SAH end, but it's being an apologist. SAH classic people WERE treated shabbily in this respect.
You can say I and people who think like me are whiners if you please, but bottom line is, now that there's REALLY valid science to do, they've driven away needed capacity that could be doing valuable work now.
Well, heck. Even though i've been running SAH so long it's been background noise to me, I was aware of BOINC even though it's come down to checking the site about once or twice a year to see if there was a client upgrade. If I was aware of it, it's hard to believe it was all that easy to completely miss.
Nope, what I think is the REAL bone of contention is not converting all those classic WU's and giving the switchover people some credit for all those years of work.
Here we are, crunching the same wu's for the same project with basically the same app running under BOINC but we lose everything. A Bad Call imho. Some kind of prorated partial credit could and should have been granted to switchover classic crunchers. There wouldn't BE a BOINC if we hadn't been there all those years, validating the DC concept. Neither the interest the proof or the grants would have been forthcoming without our loyalty, time, effort and a bit of money (for the electric if nothing else ;)) AND, be sure that's ALL we were doing. The chances of actually hearing a valid signal with a ground based antenna are so close to zero as to be the same thing.
You can say all you want about 'a new project' even though it's NOT from the SAH end, but it's being an apologist. SAH classic people WERE treated shabbily in this respect.
You can say I and people who think like me are whiners if you please, but bottom line is, now that there's REALLY valid science to do, they've driven away needed capacity that could be doing valuable work now.
the way i see it...Classic SETI has completed it's season...the champions of Classic will always be the champs...the standings are final...SETI/BOINC is a whole new season...where the game starts all over...and those who are just getting into crunching SETI have a chance to compete as well...in a way doing it this way keeps it more competitive...after all...football season...baseball season...hockey season...none of them last forever...no one would ever be satisfied...at least with SETI CLASSIC...we know who the best of the best are...and they will never be challenged.
Perhaps you misunderstand... I don't have a thing against BOINC. After all, I'm here and enjoying myself. My beef is with the way the folks a Berkeley treated those of us at SETI Classic over the last two years. Sure, we knew the project was going to draw to a close. It was going to close from the day it started. What it boiled down to was that the Berkeley folks ignored the people at Classic, failed to keep us informed and refused to do anything about the remarkably rude treatment of SETI Classic users on the SETI BOINC message boards. After six plus years of effort on the part of the volunteers one might expect better treatment.
I'm here at Einstein because 1)the science intrigued me 2)because the message boards seemed rather free of the animosity that drove me away from SETI.
End of story.
You think you need some kind of special treatment because you did Seti Classic, Well you don't. Most of the people you are bashing also crunched Classic Seti. Get over yourself.
Folks, this is ridiculous. UCB ignores _everybody_, Classic, BOINC, it doesn't matter, they don't have the resources to pay attention. People who did Classic up to the end were hurt by the way they were treated. Fine. I've yanked SETI off of all but my slowest boxes, giving my CPU power to places doing "real science" - such as Einstein. Nothing to do with Classic, but just getting fed up with UCB.
The good thing about the boards HERE has been the lack of flamewars. We have one person who asks a reasonable question, but happens to title the thread badly, and a bunch of SETI-heads come over just to attack. (And post back on the SETI boards about how this "whiner" is complaining about SETI over here.) GET A GRIP! Let this thread die. If you want to wail and moan, do it over in the SETI zoo.
Warhawk - PLEASE, just don't post any more to this thread. The people responding are NOT the typical Einstein group. Matt Davis posted a link to this thread over on SETI; please note the responses you got _before_ that point were about your actual question. SOME of the people coming from Classic are a royal pain, bashing BOINC for no reason, and SOME of the people on BOINC are equally bad about bashing anyone who has any complaint about UCB or BOINC or anything at all. Don't let them come over here and screw up Einstein as well.
If there is a mod reading this, just delete the whole thread. It's no loss.
What is the differance if you crunched in classic or in Boinc. Its all about the goal, get over it and keep at the goal. The bonus with Boinc is you can also help other projects help humanity as a whole. I crunch SETI, & Predictor, have recently added Einstien and LHA, even though LHA is not producing any WU'S.
As far as UCB goes, well if you only have a few people, and a lot of work, something has to give, get over it. The goal is the work, not how well they hold your hand and stroke your ego. IF you need that , go see your mother.
Yeah. UCB ignores everyone. The smart people screaming at them on how they can better run their services are basically crying at a stone.
Yet on the other end, UCB is trying desperately to fix the downed server that's making all those people whine and moan. They have the choice of a) fix server or b) answer whiners. Which would you pick?
SETI is the worst program in the whole BOINC system. It crashes all the time, they're always implementing new code, they have an uncontrolled environment with everyone running optimized apps and their server sucks.
Yet on the other hand, all the other projects wait several months after SETI implements something before they implement it. Why put in something unstable when you have someone else perfectly willing to try it out? Then you wait for it to work perfectly and implement it yourself. Saves you the time and hassle of trying to fix something someone else will fix for you. Sounds intelligent to me that the creators of BOINC are using a pilot project like SETI to test the waters of distributed computing in multiple projects. Hence why SETI always has the glitches and no one else does.
SETI crunchers are mean. They don't like to help anyone coming over from classic. All they do is flame and bite our heads off. All I wanted was a little love and help.
Yet on the other hand, if you were sticking with an experimental program with it's ups and downs, fighting to figure out how to make your hardware and software work together, fighting to figure out how to make the project as a whole work better, and then had people come along and tell you that all your efforts are worth crap and they want no part in it anymore, wouldn't you be a little peeved too? I'm still new and using all my spare time to try and help those who are having troubles. I've had people tell me to my face (through the screen) that what I've posted to try and help them was crap. I stick with the pilot to make the pilot better so others have a paved road to follow. I am willing to share my experience with those who could use it, but it gets really hard after people keep throwing it back in your face then jumping ship. So if you want to keep griping and moaning about how everyone is mistreated, that the SETI program isn't worth the code it's written in and how everything done by Berkeley is crap, then go right on ahead. But you better realize that your complaints are very one sided. Hurt goes both ways and all of us are trying to get bandaged up. So maybe it would be nice to think about the other side before you start throwing flames. I have and now have a few friends who before were enemies to the project. But for the sake of all of us, just STOP! It gets you nowhere in the long run and just hurts everyone.
And for the original question of how to get rid of the icon, I hope it worked. CPU's need all the resources they can get for these projects. I would offer more advice, but I read the posts and everything seems to have been covered.
Yet on the other hand, if you were sticking with an experimental program with it's ups and downs, fighting to figure out how to make your hardware and software work together, fighting to figure out how to make the project as a whole work better
Isn't that Windows 95 to present you're talking about? :-)
Quote:
I've had people tell me to my face (through the screen) that what I've posted to try and help them was crap.
Don't forget... Seti Classic never had these problems... visibly. ;-)
Quote:
I am willing to share my experience with those who could use it, but it gets really hard after people keep throwing it back in your face then jumping ship.
Two hours on the help desk forums in Seti and Matt was running away, screaming and pulling hair from all kinds of body parts. It wasn't a pretty sight, I can tell you. :-(
Yet on the other hand, if you were sticking with an experimental program with it's ups and downs, fighting to figure out how to make your hardware and software work together, fighting to figure out how to make the project as a whole work better
Isn't that Windows 95 to present you're talking about? :-)
Windows 95? Man. You're not giving microsoft the credit they deserve. I mean, look at windows 3.1. Somewhere after DOS 6 was when they hired on that new PR guy (or maybe it was their lawyer turned programmer. who can tell?), that's when they really got into it and made a name for themselves.
Quote:
Quote:
I've had people tell me to my face (through the screen) that what I've posted to try and help them was crap.
Don't forget... Seti Classic never had these problems... visibly. ;-)
Ain't vision great? And how does that phrase go? Hindsight is 20/20? All I can say is if hindsight is 20/20, I'm walking backwards the rest of my life.
Quote:
Quote:
I am willing to share my experience with those who could use it, but it gets really hard after people keep throwing it back in your face then jumping ship.
Two hours on the help desk forums in Seti and Matt was running away, screaming and pulling hair from all kinds of body parts. It wasn't a pretty sight, I can tell you. :-(
And let me tell you, morphine is the best wonder drug in the world. I'm telling you that stuff can cure ANYTHING! Of course, there was a LOT of pain up until that time... The memories still hurt. And lets not forget to thank those doctors who so kindly padded my whole room for me. It was so nice of them. They told me that it was so I could sleep anywhere I wanted to in ANY position! Let me tell you, after all that, beds are so a thing of the past. It's all about the padding man.
Quote:
In the mean time... BOINC still runs perfectly.
Unlike those of us who are out of shape. Maybe I could write a BOINC project that helped me lose weight. I mean, all those computers out there needing to do stuff now that SETI's not on them, SURELY I could let them do the work for me. By this time next year, I might lose 10 pounds! Or at least know why my genes (jeans) make me look fat.
Seti Classic or Seti-BOINC,
)
Seti Classic or Seti-BOINC, in the end we're all doing the same: Crunching Seti, looking for ET.
RE: Some how this thread
)
I agree.
And the same is true both ways.
Could the SETI@home orphans start to show some compassion for the guys on zero budget trying to move their project to another platform where they did have budget. There are only so many hours in a day, and if the project team had spent all of them on the classic boards there would have been no BOINC project to migrate to.
Have compassion on the guys trying to get the lifeboats built and then trying to get people into them, while all the time the passengers are blaming them for the ship sinking. UCB didn't pull the plug on SETI classic, the funders did.
Also, maybe the SETI classic folk (orphans and early switchers) might like to take pride in the fact that UCB chose not only to save the ship by going where the funding was; but also created that funding out of thin air by proposing the most generous thing that has ever happened in Distributed Computing - a project creating an infrastructure that allows other projects to work with them and even to work together without them.
Personally I am not interested in the science of SETI, and nor at present are the funders. I am very interested, and very grateful, to the original SETI team for moving on to give BOINC to the rest of us. For that -- and only for that in my personal opinion -- you guys deserve to keep your project.
So if compassion for overworked UCB people won't help you through your mourning, if pride in what those people have given the other projects in your name won't help you through your mourning, maybe you'd like to look at it this way.
Accepting the move to BOINC is the fee that SETI paid to keep doing their science at all. The open infrastructure pays your way.
I've said more about this on the SETI boards - see Thank you SETI for BOINC
River~~
~~gravywavy
Well, heck. Even though i've
)
Well, heck. Even though i've been running SAH so long it's been background noise to me, I was aware of BOINC even though it's come down to checking the site about once or twice a year to see if there was a client upgrade. If I was aware of it, it's hard to believe it was all that easy to completely miss.
Nope, what I think is the REAL bone of contention is not converting all those classic WU's and giving the switchover people some credit for all those years of work.
Here we are, crunching the same wu's for the same project with basically the same app running under BOINC but we lose everything. A Bad Call imho. Some kind of prorated partial credit could and should have been granted to switchover classic crunchers. There wouldn't BE a BOINC if we hadn't been there all those years, validating the DC concept. Neither the interest the proof or the grants would have been forthcoming without our loyalty, time, effort and a bit of money (for the electric if nothing else ;)) AND, be sure that's ALL we were doing. The chances of actually hearing a valid signal with a ground based antenna are so close to zero as to be the same thing.
You can say all you want about 'a new project' even though it's NOT from the SAH end, but it's being an apologist. SAH classic people WERE treated shabbily in this respect.
You can say I and people who think like me are whiners if you please, but bottom line is, now that there's REALLY valid science to do, they've driven away needed capacity that could be doing valuable work now.
RE: Well, heck. Even though
)
the way i see it...Classic SETI has completed it's season...the champions of Classic will always be the champs...the standings are final...SETI/BOINC is a whole new season...where the game starts all over...and those who are just getting into crunching SETI have a chance to compete as well...in a way doing it this way keeps it more competitive...after all...football season...baseball season...hockey season...none of them last forever...no one would ever be satisfied...at least with SETI CLASSIC...we know who the best of the best are...and they will never be challenged.
RE: RE: The Poll sums it
)
You think you need some kind of special treatment because you did Seti Classic, Well you don't. Most of the people you are bashing also crunched Classic Seti. Get over yourself.
98SE XP2500+ @ 2.1 GHz Boinc v5.8.8
Folks, this is ridiculous.
)
Folks, this is ridiculous. UCB ignores _everybody_, Classic, BOINC, it doesn't matter, they don't have the resources to pay attention. People who did Classic up to the end were hurt by the way they were treated. Fine. I've yanked SETI off of all but my slowest boxes, giving my CPU power to places doing "real science" - such as Einstein. Nothing to do with Classic, but just getting fed up with UCB.
The good thing about the boards HERE has been the lack of flamewars. We have one person who asks a reasonable question, but happens to title the thread badly, and a bunch of SETI-heads come over just to attack. (And post back on the SETI boards about how this "whiner" is complaining about SETI over here.) GET A GRIP! Let this thread die. If you want to wail and moan, do it over in the SETI zoo.
Warhawk - PLEASE, just don't post any more to this thread. The people responding are NOT the typical Einstein group. Matt Davis posted a link to this thread over on SETI; please note the responses you got _before_ that point were about your actual question. SOME of the people coming from Classic are a royal pain, bashing BOINC for no reason, and SOME of the people on BOINC are equally bad about bashing anyone who has any complaint about UCB or BOINC or anything at all. Don't let them come over here and screw up Einstein as well.
If there is a mod reading this, just delete the whole thread. It's no loss.
What is the differance if you
)
What is the differance if you crunched in classic or in Boinc. Its all about the goal, get over it and keep at the goal. The bonus with Boinc is you can also help other projects help humanity as a whole. I crunch SETI, & Predictor, have recently added Einstien and LHA, even though LHA is not producing any WU'S.
As far as UCB goes, well if you only have a few people, and a lot of work, something has to give, get over it. The goal is the work, not how well they hold your hand and stroke your ego. IF you need that , go see your mother.
Come Join us at Hawaiian Beach Bums
Yeah. UCB ignores everyone.
)
Yeah. UCB ignores everyone. The smart people screaming at them on how they can better run their services are basically crying at a stone.
Yet on the other end, UCB is trying desperately to fix the downed server that's making all those people whine and moan. They have the choice of a) fix server or b) answer whiners. Which would you pick?
SETI is the worst program in the whole BOINC system. It crashes all the time, they're always implementing new code, they have an uncontrolled environment with everyone running optimized apps and their server sucks.
Yet on the other hand, all the other projects wait several months after SETI implements something before they implement it. Why put in something unstable when you have someone else perfectly willing to try it out? Then you wait for it to work perfectly and implement it yourself. Saves you the time and hassle of trying to fix something someone else will fix for you. Sounds intelligent to me that the creators of BOINC are using a pilot project like SETI to test the waters of distributed computing in multiple projects. Hence why SETI always has the glitches and no one else does.
SETI crunchers are mean. They don't like to help anyone coming over from classic. All they do is flame and bite our heads off. All I wanted was a little love and help.
Yet on the other hand, if you were sticking with an experimental program with it's ups and downs, fighting to figure out how to make your hardware and software work together, fighting to figure out how to make the project as a whole work better, and then had people come along and tell you that all your efforts are worth crap and they want no part in it anymore, wouldn't you be a little peeved too? I'm still new and using all my spare time to try and help those who are having troubles. I've had people tell me to my face (through the screen) that what I've posted to try and help them was crap. I stick with the pilot to make the pilot better so others have a paved road to follow. I am willing to share my experience with those who could use it, but it gets really hard after people keep throwing it back in your face then jumping ship. So if you want to keep griping and moaning about how everyone is mistreated, that the SETI program isn't worth the code it's written in and how everything done by Berkeley is crap, then go right on ahead. But you better realize that your complaints are very one sided. Hurt goes both ways and all of us are trying to get bandaged up. So maybe it would be nice to think about the other side before you start throwing flames. I have and now have a few friends who before were enemies to the project. But for the sake of all of us, just STOP! It gets you nowhere in the long run and just hurts everyone.
And for the original question of how to get rid of the icon, I hope it worked. CPU's need all the resources they can get for these projects. I would offer more advice, but I read the posts and everything seems to have been covered.
RE: Yet on the other hand,
)
Isn't that Windows 95 to present you're talking about? :-)
Don't forget... Seti Classic never had these problems... visibly. ;-)
Two hours on the help desk forums in Seti and Matt was running away, screaming and pulling hair from all kinds of body parts. It wasn't a pretty sight, I can tell you. :-(
In the mean time... BOINC still runs perfectly.
RE: RE: Yet on the other
)
Windows 95? Man. You're not giving microsoft the credit they deserve. I mean, look at windows 3.1. Somewhere after DOS 6 was when they hired on that new PR guy (or maybe it was their lawyer turned programmer. who can tell?), that's when they really got into it and made a name for themselves.
Ain't vision great? And how does that phrase go? Hindsight is 20/20? All I can say is if hindsight is 20/20, I'm walking backwards the rest of my life.
And let me tell you, morphine is the best wonder drug in the world. I'm telling you that stuff can cure ANYTHING! Of course, there was a LOT of pain up until that time... The memories still hurt. And lets not forget to thank those doctors who so kindly padded my whole room for me. It was so nice of them. They told me that it was so I could sleep anywhere I wanted to in ANY position! Let me tell you, after all that, beds are so a thing of the past. It's all about the padding man.
Unlike those of us who are out of shape. Maybe I could write a BOINC project that helped me lose weight. I mean, all those computers out there needing to do stuff now that SETI's not on them, SURELY I could let them do the work for me. By this time next year, I might lose 10 pounds! Or at least know why my genes (jeans) make me look fat.