Certainly I knew that Classic was shutting down... We all knew that it would shut down eventually... As I mentioned, I crunched for Classic for six and a half years, starting July 8th of 1999, and produced more work than 99.969% of Classic users... We on the Classic side should have been treated better or at least equally...
My beef is the way that the folks a Berkeley kept the folks on the Classic side in the dark regarding virtually everything... There were essentially no updates posted at the SETI Classic web site... We most often had to rely on folks with some level of inside knowledge to get information...
Bottom line is that the treatment afforded us by Berkeley drove many dedicated participants away from what was a most worthwhile project...
Warhawk
I think Berkeley did good job shutting down classic, and they gave us 1.5 years to make the switch to BOINC. I didn't wait, joined BOINC community when I first found out about it. If you did not know classic was coming to an end and not ready for classic demise then you must have been living under a rock.
I was just going to read and leave but this got to me. I rejoined SETI Classic in May 04 after a few years absence, due to health problems, I crunched for a month then I noticed a blurb on the right side of the front page about a new and exciting way to crunch so I clicked on the link and never looked back. SO all I am trying to say is, BS about not getting the info it was there but you ignored it. II have been processing Seti WUs for over 1 1/2 years and they are doing a bang up job with very little money and personnel.....
We on the Classic side should have been treated better or at least equally...
Not to start an argument, but, treated better than whom?
SETI II...
Just note the difference in information provided on the message boards... The vast majority of what we heard on the Classic board was ported over by someone familiar with the SETI BOINC project...
It's easier to beg for forgiveness that it is to ask for permission...
Just note the difference in information provided on the message boards... The vast majority of what we heard on the Classic board was ported over by someone familiar with the SETI BOINC project...
Understood - but also understand that the message on the SETI Classic boards to "please use the new SETI/BOINC boards" had been on the Classic boards for _months_ before the switchover. _MY_ complaint is that the info on the _new_ boards was _still_ inadequate... leaving it almost entirely to the volunteers to handle the switchover. Look at the number of posts Tony made, for example (mmciastro) in helping people during the change.
I understand fully why Classic crunchers feel "neglected" - but please don't feel like it's because BOINC crunchers were/are treated "better". We were getting the _same_ neglect from UCB.
We on the Classic side should have been treated better or at least equally...
Not to start an argument, but, treated better than whom?
SETI II...
Just note the difference in information provided on the message boards... The vast majority of what we heard on the Classic board was ported over by someone familiar with the SETI BOINC project...
I don't want this to come across as a "walking up-hill both to and from school in a blizzard" kind of thing, but, you should have been in the early beta ... back then we did not have the experience, the application died with a GPF every 20-min for some, the debug code made the work units take forever, no good status page (no status page at all for that matter), and the same lack of communication.
The only advantage I have had as an "early-adopter" is that I started building my CS totals sooner. You can construe that to mean you are at a disadvantage, but reflect on this, it also means my Classic score suffered!
Anyway, I am not here to defend them, I am just trying to understand why the feelings exist. One of the reasons I like BOINC more than SETI@Home Classic is that I can move from project to project, donating where I feel my work is appreciated, and leaving when I don't (re: Predictor@Home). Best of all, for the stat monkey in me, my contribution total is no longer dependent on the quality and life of ONE project.
Heck, for most of the last month it seems I was changing my resource share on almost a daily basis as I thought through what I wanted to do ...
leaving it almost entirely to the volunteers to handle the switchover. Look at the number of posts Tony made, for example (mmciastro) in helping people during the change.
Why do I have the nagging feeling only Tony will be remembered at the end of all of this... no mention of Winterknight, MJKelleher, Jim K, barbarossa, Pooh Bear 27, RRipley, Ozzfan1, or anyone else (me ;)) whenever you look for gratitude. As if we haven't spend night after night, 2 weeks in a row, trying to help people and fight off the quitters. ;)
But hey, as long as you remember one, right?
It's like: "I see Paul D. Buck doing great work over on the BOINC forums". 8-)
(Sorry Bill, couldn't let that one go :))
P.S: I did see the "for example"
Quote:
but, you should have been in the early beta ... back then we did not have the experience, the application died with a GPF every 20-min for some, the debug code made the work units take forever, no good status page (no status page at all for that matter), and the same lack of communication.
Don't forget the fun time when lots of us running a form of Windows noticed we had to reformat and reinstall Windows/put a Ghost backup back. ;)
We on the Classic side should have been treated better or at least equally...
Not to start an argument, but, treated better than whom?
SETI II...
Just note the difference in information provided on the message boards... The vast majority of what we heard on the Classic board was ported over by someone familiar with the SETI BOINC project...
Quote:
I don't want this to come across as a "walking up-hill both to and from school in a blizzard" kind of thing, but, you should have been in the early beta ...
See ya' and raise ya' one... I was around in the early days... the early days of SETI@home when the app would crash on a regular basis; when results wouldn't upload for days at a time; when work units didn't download for days at a time; when the folks at Berkeley had as little of a clue as the rest of us and the accumulated knowledge was based on 'Hey guys, guess what it just did!!!'...
I haven't gone out with your sister but I did date your mom...
;-)
It's easier to beg for forgiveness that it is to ask for permission...
See ya' and raise ya' one... I was around in the early days... the early days of SETI@home when the app would crash on a regular basis; when results wouldn't upload for days at a time; when work units didn't download for days at a time; when the folks at Berkeley had as little of a clue as the rest of us and the accumulated knowledge was based on 'Hey guys, guess what it just did!!!'...
Yeah, I hear you.
I remember SOME of that, though I did start later when it was running better.
For some reason, the many that opine that BOINC is not as good as SETI@Home Classic never seem to mention those times. Nor the upload/download problems you really could only find out about by babysitting your queue program and forcing connections...
And I remember running out of work any number of times because I could not download. Of course, without deadlines I just made huge queues ...
I just used him as the example because he's not a slacker like some... he's at 4725 posts vs. some measly little 3714... :-P
(Some would worry about _content_, and not _count_, but there isn't a credit system for postings! It's the Classic approach!)
I'm still trying to hit 1000. :-( Seriously, the amount of work put in by you and Paul and Tony and _everybody_ this last few weeks, on SETI and Einstein and BOINC and Rosetta and... has been incredible.
SETI is the 'granddaddy' of DC projects (although I seem to recall doing RC5 before SETI...)
In the same way that Lotus 123 was the granddaddy of spreadsheets yes.
Visicalc invented the computerised spreadsheet, and on-paper spreadsheets were around in the days when 'computers' were the ladies who turned the handles on the mechanical calculating machines that worked out the cells. Nobody knew about them, not even most engineers let alone the public. Lotus brought the idea of a spreadsheet to the general public.
Likewise there were several DC projects before SETI, at least one is still going (GIMPS) but you had to be a geek to know about it.
SETI made it obvious to everyone how DC works. Classic CPDN, for example, would not have been attempted if SETI had not proved that you can get megaflops out of the general public.
RE: RE: RE: Ahhh..
)
I was just going to read and leave but this got to me. I rejoined SETI Classic in May 04 after a few years absence, due to health problems, I crunched for a month then I noticed a blurb on the right side of the front page about a new and exciting way to crunch so I clicked on the link and never looked back. SO all I am trying to say is, BS about not getting the info it was there but you ignored it. II have been processing Seti WUs for over 1 1/2 years and they are doing a bang up job with very little money and personnel.....
BOINC Wiki
RE: RE: Not to start an
)
Ok, but now I am even further in the dark.
Which hobby? Running BOINC?
I heard it as
we are expected to do everything, with nothing, forever ...
RE: RE: We on the
)
SETI II...
Just note the difference in information provided on the message boards... The vast majority of what we heard on the Classic board was ported over by someone familiar with the SETI BOINC project...
It's easier to beg for forgiveness that it is to ask for permission...
-AFFTC
RE: Just note the
)
Understood - but also understand that the message on the SETI Classic boards to "please use the new SETI/BOINC boards" had been on the Classic boards for _months_ before the switchover. _MY_ complaint is that the info on the _new_ boards was _still_ inadequate... leaving it almost entirely to the volunteers to handle the switchover. Look at the number of posts Tony made, for example (mmciastro) in helping people during the change.
I understand fully why Classic crunchers feel "neglected" - but please don't feel like it's because BOINC crunchers were/are treated "better". We were getting the _same_ neglect from UCB.
RE: RE: RE: We on the
)
I don't want this to come across as a "walking up-hill both to and from school in a blizzard" kind of thing, but, you should have been in the early beta ... back then we did not have the experience, the application died with a GPF every 20-min for some, the debug code made the work units take forever, no good status page (no status page at all for that matter), and the same lack of communication.
The only advantage I have had as an "early-adopter" is that I started building my CS totals sooner. You can construe that to mean you are at a disadvantage, but reflect on this, it also means my Classic score suffered!
Anyway, I am not here to defend them, I am just trying to understand why the feelings exist. One of the reasons I like BOINC more than SETI@Home Classic is that I can move from project to project, donating where I feel my work is appreciated, and leaving when I don't (re: Predictor@Home). Best of all, for the stat monkey in me, my contribution total is no longer dependent on the quality and life of ONE project.
Heck, for most of the last month it seems I was changing my resource share on almost a daily basis as I thought through what I wanted to do ...
RE: leaving it almost
)
Why do I have the nagging feeling only Tony will be remembered at the end of all of this... no mention of Winterknight, MJKelleher, Jim K, barbarossa, Pooh Bear 27, RRipley, Ozzfan1, or anyone else (me ;)) whenever you look for gratitude. As if we haven't spend night after night, 2 weeks in a row, trying to help people and fight off the quitters. ;)
But hey, as long as you remember one, right?
It's like: "I see Paul D. Buck doing great work over on the BOINC forums". 8-)
(Sorry Bill, couldn't let that one go :))
P.S: I did see the "for example"
Don't forget the fun time when lots of us running a form of Windows noticed we had to reformat and reinstall Windows/put a Ghost backup back. ;)
Ah, those were the fun times.
RE: RE: RE: RE: We
)
It's easier to beg for forgiveness that it is to ask for permission...
-AFFTC
RE: See ya' and raise ya'
)
Yeah, I hear you.
I remember SOME of that, though I did start later when it was running better.
For some reason, the many that opine that BOINC is not as good as SETI@Home Classic never seem to mention those times. Nor the upload/download problems you really could only find out about by babysitting your queue program and forcing connections...
And I remember running out of work any number of times because I could not download. Of course, without deadlines I just made huge queues ...
RE: (Sorry Bill, couldn't
)
I just used him as the example because he's not a slacker like some... he's at 4725 posts vs. some measly little 3714... :-P
(Some would worry about _content_, and not _count_, but there isn't a credit system for postings! It's the Classic approach!)
I'm still trying to hit 1000. :-( Seriously, the amount of work put in by you and Paul and Tony and _everybody_ this last few weeks, on SETI and Einstein and BOINC and Rosetta and... has been incredible.
RE: SETI is the
)
In the same way that Lotus 123 was the granddaddy of spreadsheets yes.
Visicalc invented the computerised spreadsheet, and on-paper spreadsheets were around in the days when 'computers' were the ladies who turned the handles on the mechanical calculating machines that worked out the cells. Nobody knew about them, not even most engineers let alone the public. Lotus brought the idea of a spreadsheet to the general public.
Likewise there were several DC projects before SETI, at least one is still going (GIMPS) but you had to be a geek to know about it.
SETI made it obvious to everyone how DC works. Classic CPDN, for example, would not have been attempted if SETI had not proved that you can get megaflops out of the general public.
River~~
~~gravywavy