I finally got my 3950X CPU, but I would like some advice

Keith Myers
Keith Myers
Joined: 11 Feb 11
Posts: 4969
Credit: 18771939189
RAC: 7227914

Just want to confirm what the

Just want to confirm what the last few posts in the X470 forum are talking about.  Both the X370 and X470 use a very crappy SIO chip called the ITE8665E.  It has lots of problems.  Biggest one is that if you use the WMI monitors in the monitoring programs, it will eventually screw up the readings and the worst thing that can happen is that the fan headers on the motherboard can be turned off leading to high temps or even cpu shutdowns.

Best thing to do is to turn off reading from the WMI sensor in the monitoring programs.  Also do not use more than one program to access the WMI sensors at any time.  That means don't use AIDA64 and HWMonitor at the same time for example.  Or any RGB control program at the same time as monitor program.

The ASUS BIOS across their entire suite of mobos had a fan control problem last year for about six months where the fans would spin down or stop randomly.  The BIOS in most boards finally got an update that fixed the problem but it seems the X470 is still plagued with the problem.

I had the problem with my Crosshair VII Hero boards and just moved all the fans off the motherboard header to an external fan controller to solve the issue.  I run all my fans at +12V DC anyway so don't need any kind of control so no compromise needed for the fan controller.

Thankfully, the new X570 ASUS boards use the well known and stable NCT 6775 series of SIO chips so no fan problems ever again.

 

Tom M
Tom M
Joined: 2 Feb 06
Posts: 6471
Credit: 9595640715
RAC: 6351753

George wrote: I finally did

George wrote:

I finally did it. I broke down and got a Ryzen 9 3950X CPU,

Quote:

+1

 

Welcome to the club! :)

 

Tom M

A Proud member of the O.F.A.  (Old Farts Association).  Be well, do good work, and keep in touch.® (Garrison Keillor)  I want some more patience. RIGHT NOW!

GWGeorge007
GWGeorge007
Joined: 8 Jan 18
Posts: 3075
Credit: 4975207686
RAC: 1433272

Thank you Keith for getting

Thank you Keith for getting back to me.  I was about to ask about the very issue you had brought up.

I have not done any of the "monitoring" with several programs, just the HW Monitor from CPU-Z.

I will go into my BIOS (again!) and turn off reading from the WMI sensor in the monitoring programs.

Also, I'll look into changing my motherboard for ASUS TUF series X570.  As of now I'm still kind of partial towards the ASUS brand, and more specifically the ones that are military spec like the TUF series.

I would like to run my fans in a PWM mode since I live in a one bedroom apartment and I try to keep the noise down as much as possible.  And right now my AMD 3950X PC is a bit louder than my Intel i7-990X PC.  I really don't have anywhere else to put the PCs other than in the living room. 

George

Proud member of the Old Farts Association

Keith Myers
Keith Myers
Joined: 11 Feb 11
Posts: 4969
Credit: 18771939189
RAC: 7227914

Quote:I have not done any of

Quote:
I have not done any of the "monitoring" with several programs, just the HW Monitor from CPU-Z.

You don't turn off the WMI interface in the BIOS.  You can't.  It is part of the BIOS and not exposed to any BIOS developer or Manufacturer.

What you can do is turn off the WMI interface in the monitoring programs.  Or if that is not possible, turn off the EC (embedded controller) interface in the monitoring software.

The issue is because ASUS did not correctly implement the WMI interface with a mutex lock that prevents two or more programs from accessing the WMI interface or changing any of the WMI registers at the same time.

This causes a collision between the two programs and registers and register values can be changed or corrupted from their proper contents.

This was first documented by Ray Hinchcliffe, the developer of System Information Manager (SIV) that discovered the issue on the incredibly bad Corsair AIO and RGB control software.  No mutex lock.  BTW, I heartily recommend that software for Windows.  It was my steadfast system monitor software for 20 years until I moved to Linux.  SIV properly implements a mutex lock on various interfaces to stop programs from stomping all over each other trying to control the same hardware.  It can be a little intimidating for a first time user because of its ability to display everything and anything about your system.  There can be information overload and some find the embedded menus a little difficult to understand. So some find a much simpler interface like Hwinfo64 easier to handle. Hwinfo64 download

[Edit] Thought I would include the snippet about SMB locking from the SIV website for you to understand the issue.  Best advice, AVOID all ASUS softwares because they do not utilize SMB locking.

When Only SIV is reported this shows no other programs are using that lock, so if other programs are reporting motherboard sensors their access will not be interlocked with the SIV accesses so the strange and unexpected may occur. All of AIDA64 + CPUZ + HWiNFO + OHM + SpeedFan + SIV should correctly use these locks and work correctly when used concurrently. ASUS AI Suite does not use these locks so should not be used when SIV is being used and doing this is unsupported. This is also the situation for most other motherboard manufacturer supplied utilities.

 

Keith Myers
Keith Myers
Joined: 11 Feb 11
Posts: 4969
Credit: 18771939189
RAC: 7227914

The ASUS TUF X570 board

The ASUS TUF X570 board should be fine with regard to fan control as I am positive it uses an alternative SIO chip, I think the NCT 6791D.  Almost all of the X570 boards use an NCT SIO chip as far as I know.

ASUS did not want to repeat the same mistake they did for the X370 and X470 chipset boards.

Just as an FYI, if you ever do venture into Linux Land, there is a very good chipset sensor driver from an independent developer that supports ASUS BIOS' that incorporate the WMI interface.  I use it and am very happy with it.  This is an example of its output in Terminal.

keith@Serenity:~$ sensors
asuswmisensors-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
CPU Core Voltage:          1.22 V  
CPU SOC Voltage:           1.08 V  
DRAM Voltage:              1.42 V  
VDDP Voltage:            610.00 mV 
1.8V PLL Voltage:          2.03 V  
+12V Voltage:             11.72 V  
+5V Voltage:               4.80 V  
3VSB Voltage:              3.33 V  
VBAT Voltage:              3.18 V  
AVCC3 Voltage:             3.33 V  
SB 1.05V Voltage:          1.08 V  
CPU Core Voltage:          1.23 V  
CPU SOC Voltage:           1.09 V  
DRAM Voltage:              1.47 V  
CPU Fan:                 1962 RPM
Chassis Fan 1:              0 RPM
Chassis Fan 2:              0 RPM
Chassis Fan 3:              0 RPM
HAMP Fan:                   0 RPM
Water Pump:                 0 RPM
CPU OPT:                    0 RPM
Water Flow:                 0 RPM
AIO Pump:                4801 RPM
CPU Temperature:          +71.0°C  
CPU Socket Temperature:   +52.0°C  
Motherboard Temperature:  +34.0°C  
Chipset Temperature:      +53.0°C  
Tsensor 1 Temperature:   +216.0°C  
CPU VRM Temperature:      +61.0°C  
Water In:                +216.0°C  
Water Out:                +36.0°C  
CPU VRM Output Current:   86.00 A  

k10temp-pci-00c3
Adapter: PCI adapter
Tdie:         +71.8°C  (high = +70.0°C)
Tctl:         +71.8°C  

It exposes all those motherboard and cpu parameters to my Desktop monitor which is GKrellM for graphical display.

asus-wmi-sensors Linux driver

 

GWGeorge007
GWGeorge007
Joined: 8 Jan 18
Posts: 3075
Credit: 4975207686
RAC: 1433272

You are amazing!  How you

You are amazing!  How you know so much about computers...  I've been more or less a computer nerd from the mid 80's while doing my thing with auto mechanics and teaching at the college level for nearly 20 years.  You know so much more, so much in fact that even though I don't know you well at all, I believe you have been a computer genius since you began to walk.  But I digress.....

I have done a little research into ASUS motherboards and the ones that I would and could purchase are "unavailable", at least for the time being.  There are others available, and MOST of the x570 MB's under ~$250 are not available by Amazon and Newegg.  The ones that are I wouldn't want anyway.

For the time being I'll look into SIV.  I have the free editions of AIDA64 and CPU-Z, and I have HWiNFO64 though I haven't really played with it yet.  I'll get SIV and get back to you.

George

Proud member of the Old Farts Association

Keith Myers
Keith Myers
Joined: 11 Feb 11
Posts: 4969
Credit: 18771939189
RAC: 7227914

I like SIV because it has a

I like SIV because it has a very compact window (OK, not so much if you show most of everything, but very usable on a halfway sized monitor).  It shows the loading of the cpu cores, and the gpus, voltages and clocks. I used to just keep it open on the Desktop under all the other program windows that I happened to have open.

I got my first exposure to computers in college when I had to write up a 30 page non-destructive testing lab report every week and the old high school Royal typewriter just wasn't going to cut it.  So I bought one of the first Jameco 8088 PC kits and put it together.  Been building PC's ever since.

I would consider putting SIV and Hwinof64 on your shortlist.  Ray is very responsive to upgrading SIV constantly for whatever new hardware appears in the market.  And Martin does a similar job for Hwinfo64.  Both good developers that share notes.  I was one of Ray's beta testers for every new release of SIV.  I have a knack for finding obtuse corner case issues for some reason.

I noticed the lack of X570 mobos at the usual vendors also.  Must be supply line issues because of Covid-19.  I don't think it is because of the new mobos for Zen 3 yet as those are still at least six months out.

 

Anthony Evans
Anthony Evans
Joined: 24 Feb 05
Posts: 4
Credit: 106928058
RAC: 76678

Less is more, unless you are

Less is more, unless you are in marketing!

Try fewer threads. Add them back until CPU utilization stops rising. Beyond that, you're adding slowness.

Electrical power increases with the square of the voltage, computing power does not. Don't run at max frequencies, unless you need a space heater. That goes for your GPU too.

Tom M
Tom M
Joined: 2 Feb 06
Posts: 6471
Credit: 9595640715
RAC: 6351753

George, You probably will

George,

You probably will be happy with a cpu voltage of 1.1 to 1.25

But test it before you forget it :)

Tom M

 

 

A Proud member of the O.F.A.  (Old Farts Association).  Be well, do good work, and keep in touch.® (Garrison Keillor)  I want some more patience. RIGHT NOW!

GWGeorge007
GWGeorge007
Joined: 8 Jan 18
Posts: 3075
Credit: 4975207686
RAC: 1433272

Hi Tom.  Thanks for the

Hi Tom.  Thanks for the advice.  Right now I'm running my CPU at a little bit higher voltage, plus I did some more tinkering the last few days.  I checked my CPU & GPUs tonight around midnight and this is what I have so far.

AMD 3950x and (2)RTX 2070 Super GPUs on HWiNFO64:

CPU @:
Max = 4.217 GHz at 1.337v
Ave = 4.195 GHz at 1.320v

CPU Temp:
Max = 63°C
Ave = 54°C

CPU Pkg Power:
Max = 94 W
Ave = 90 W

RTX 2070 Super GPU #0:
Temp Max = 63°C
Temp Ave = 57°C
Pwr Max = 98 W
Pwr Ave = 55 W
GPU Core Load: Max = 34%
GPU Mem Controller Load: Max = 26%
Mem Usage: Max = 40%

RTX 2070 Super GPU #1:
Temp Max = 57°C
Temp Ave = 50°C
Pwr Max = 144 W
Pwr Ave = 75 W
GPU Core Load: Max = 40%
GPU Mem Controller Load: Max = 30%
Mem Usage: Max = 40%

And here is my Event Log from BOINC Manager:

5/8/2020 12:03:17 AM |  | Starting BOINC client version 7.16.5 for windows_x86_64
5/8/2020 12:03:17 AM |  | log flags: file_xfer, sched_ops, task, sched_op_debug
5/8/2020 12:03:17 AM |  | Libraries: libcurl/7.47.1 OpenSSL/1.0.2s zlib/1.2.8
5/8/2020 12:03:17 AM |  | Data directory: C:\ProgramData\BOINC
5/8/2020 12:03:17 AM |  | Running under account George
5/8/2020 12:03:18 AM |  | CUDA: NVIDIA GPU 0: GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER (driver version 431.86, CUDA version 10.1, compute capability 7.5, 4096MB, 3553MB available, 9062 GFLOPS peak)
5/8/2020 12:03:18 AM |  | CUDA: NVIDIA GPU 1: GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER (driver version 431.86, CUDA version 10.1, compute capability 7.5, 4096MB, 3553MB available, 9062 GFLOPS peak)
5/8/2020 12:03:18 AM |  | OpenCL: NVIDIA GPU 0: GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER (driver version 431.86, device version OpenCL 1.2 CUDA, 8192MB, 3553MB available, 9062 GFLOPS peak)
5/8/2020 12:03:18 AM |  | OpenCL: NVIDIA GPU 1: GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER (driver version 431.86, device version OpenCL 1.2 CUDA, 8192MB, 3553MB available, 9062 GFLOPS peak)
5/8/2020 12:03:18 AM |  | Windows processor group 0: 32 processors
5/8/2020 12:03:18 AM |  | Host name: GWG-PC
5/8/2020 12:03:18 AM |  | Processor: 32 AuthenticAMD AMD Ryzen 9 3950X 16-Core Processor [Family 23 Model 113 Stepping 0]
5/8/2020 12:03:18 AM |  | Processor features: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 htt pni ssse3 fma cx16 sse4_1 sse4_2 movebe popcnt aes f16c rdrandsyscall nx lm avx avx2 svm sse4a osvw ibs skinit wdt tce topx page1gb rdtscp fsgsbase bmi1 smep bmi2
5/8/2020 12:03:18 AM |  | OS: Microsoft Windows 10: Professional x64 Edition, (10.00.18363.00)
5/8/2020 12:03:18 AM |  | Memory: 31.91 GB physical, 36.91 GB virtual
5/8/2020 12:03:18 AM |  | Disk: 930.51 GB total, 861.39 GB free
5/8/2020 12:03:18 AM |  | Local time is UTC -5 hours
5/8/2020 12:03:18 AM |  | No WSL found.
5/8/2020 12:03:18 AM |  | VirtualBox version: 6.0.14
5/8/2020 12:03:23 AM | Milkyway@Home | General prefs: from Milkyway@Home (last modified 05-May-2020 10:09:35)
5/8/2020 12:03:23 AM | Milkyway@Home | Computer location: home
5/8/2020 12:03:23 AM |  | General prefs: using separate prefs for home
5/8/2020 12:03:23 AM |  | Preferences:
5/8/2020 12:03:23 AM |  | max memory usage when active: 19607.96 MB
5/8/2020 12:03:23 AM |  | max memory usage when idle: 32679.93 MB
5/8/2020 12:03:23 AM |  | max disk usage: 93.05 GB
5/8/2020 12:03:23 AM |  | max CPUs used: 24
5/8/2020 12:03:23 AM |  | suspend work if non-BOINC CPU load exceeds 80%
5/8/2020 12:03:23 AM |  | (to change preferences, visit a project web site or select Preferences in the Manager)
5/8/2020 12:03:23 AM |  | Setting up project and slot directories
5/8/2020 12:03:23 AM |  | Checking active tasks
5/8/2020 12:03:23 AM | Einstein@Home | URL http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/; Computer ID 12829820; resource share 500
5/8/2020 12:03:23 AM | Milkyway@Home | URL http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/; Computer ID 847486; resource share 500
5/8/2020 12:03:23 AM | Universe@Home | URL https://universeathome.pl/universe/; Computer ID 559081; resource share 500

I do have a few questions.

1)  So far I'm happy (sorta) with my voltage at 1.337v Max.  I don't think I'll be doing any harm to it this way, right?

2)  The only hick-up I can find with this setup is my mouse cursor sporadically freezes and I have to jerk the mouse around a bit to un-freeze it.  Whether it was me or something else I don't know.   I thought it was because I was using too many cores, so I turned off (exited) BOINC Manager and selected the check box to NOT run any projects when I exited BOINC.  I left the program off for about an hour and played solitaire and though the mouse didn't act up anywhere near as much, it did freeze occasionally.  So I'm not sure if it is the BOINC program causing it.  Your thoughts?

3)  With Windows 10, do you think I could run 2 tasks per GPU?  And if so, how would I do it?

I know I'm asking a lot of dumb questions, but as someone once told me, how will I learn without asking?  I have learned quite a bit, but I still have a looonng ways to go.

Maybe some of my favorite GURUs can chime in...

Once again, any helpful advice I can get will be greatly appreciated.

George

Proud member of the Old Farts Association

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.