However, suppose that aircraft receives it's power from a Solar power satellite? What then? It would need a much smaller battery supply...only enough to take-off and climb above cloud level.
And what altitude is above cloud level? Here in the USA on the lee side of the Rockies, that frequently can be flight level 600. Commercial air traffic is usually around flight level 350.
I'm also not sure you would want to target a moving airplane for a extra dose of sun. I'd think the part that it didn't shadow on the ground might be a problem as it moves all over.
After all, you saw how well it worked for the horse buggy and whip makers? And what about all the slide rule manufacturers, when calculators started coming out? And the fountain pen manufacturers sure put down that ball-point pen fad didn't it?
Horse whip makers still enjoy a good living from UK horse racing, with the Grand National, the 2000 Guineas, the Derby, and the Oaks. Not to mention the dressage events at Badminton horse trials etc. Slide rules did indeed get overtaken by cheap calculators.You will still find though that the upper classes and the aristocracy still use fountain pens to write letters, and most politicians sign IT printed letters in ink.
Ball point pens was not a passing fad as they are still sold by the millions everyday throughout the world
Oops, I forgot the <sarcasm></sarcasm> indicators.
My point was that those industries were ALL the dominant products in their field, but are now relegated to minor niches due to superior products being developed. (Superior is a point of view).
For aircraft there is a combination of three ways you could acquire the electricity needed to fly:
Cary it with you in high density energy storage (batteries)
receive it in flight (solar/laser power)
generate it in flight (fusion)
Aircraft tend to fly a lot above the clouds, solar panels (optionally assisted by additional energy transmitted by satellites) in combination with batteries and perhaps a backup generator could provide an hybrid aircraft.
The noise reduction of full electric takeoff and landing will be more then welcome to people working and or living near airports.
All these different type of new energy have their drawbacks.
Microwaves from space, basically creating a deadspace from the transmitter to receivers where nothing can live or fly. That would require a revision of where planes and people would travel. Depending on the size of the collector, the area affected could be quite large. (Reference the comment on utah being covered in solar panels) Plus there is alway some stray microwaves that escape.
Laser transmission sounds safer but then still have to restrict movement or living anywhere near where they are transmitted. Then there is the issue with changing density of the matter it passes thru, air, clouds, etc which would reduce it's efficiency.
If the efficency of solar panels and pliability can be increased, waste from production and the weight decreased,then there is can be use to supplement vehicles but it's hard to see them providing all the power a plane like a 787 would need.
Compact energy in the short run might be the most plausible answer. With that, you could power small cities. Several might be able to supply enough for larger and the recharging stations to sustain transportation without the nasty byproducts.
Of course there are other types of energy that we all hear about, some purely theoretical but as we get more advance, we can test these and hopefully come up with something that will eventually remove our dependency on fossil fuels.
Sidenote, Government always wants to control how people move. If they can limit your freedom, it's easier for them to force you to submit to their rule.
For aircraft there is a combination of three ways you could acquire the electricity needed to fly:
Cary it with you in high density energy storage (batteries)
receive it in flight (solar/laser power)
generate it in flight (fusion)
Aircraft tend to fly a lot above the clouds, solar panels (optionally assisted by additional energy transmitted by satellites) in combination with batteries and perhaps a backup generator could provide an hybrid aircraft.
The noise reduction of full electric takeoff and landing will be more then welcome to people working and or living near airports.
Solar Impulse, wingspan wider than a 747, passengers 1 - the pilot. We have a very long way to go before solar powered flight is anything but a laboratory curiosity.
Solar Impulse, wingspan wider than a 747, passengers 1 - the pilot. We have a very long way to go before solar powered flight is anything but a laboratory curiosity.
Indeed, we have a long way to go before aircraft would be fully electric. Hybrid aircraft could be implemented prior to being fully electric.
If solar panels on the wings of aircraft would save as much as 10% of its fuel that would already be a significant gain!
powering aircraft by microwaves from satellites is simply not feasible. You couldn't hook up to one for a 6000 mile flight. Look at vapour trails in the sky flight paths criss cross all over the world, you'd end up shooting them all down with the energy beams.
Solar panels on aircraft are another impractical idea, you couldn't fly after dark. You can cover a whole house roof with them and only generate a fraction of the needs.
Electric powered aircraft? A fully laden 787 weighs 233 tons take off weight, and the total thrust of the two engines is 152,000 lbs. What electric engine power could do that?
Back to the drawing board!
Waiting for Godot & salvation :-)
Why do doctors have to practice?
You'd think they'd have got it right by now
Electric powered aircraft? A fully laden 787 weighs 233 tons take off weight, and the total thrust of the two engines is 152,000 lbs. What electric engine power could do that?
Back to the drawing board!
Yup, that's right. Back to the drawing board. There's a good reason why NASA couldn't build the Space Shuttle in 1969...but they were successful less than 25 years later.
There's a good reason why we don't have enormous electric powered aircraft today too. But who knows what we will be capable of in 15-25 years from now? How long did it take to go from the Wright Bros to Commercial Jetliners? If it can be done, it will be...just not in a single step.
Can we build an electric motor with 76,000 (X2) lbs thrust? Maybe, but do we really need to? How about six with 25,000 lbs instead? Would probably be lighter weight and less maintenance overall. Swap out all that heavy fuel and replace with improved capacity batteries...it just might happen.
RandyC wrote:However, suppose
And what altitude is above cloud level? Here in the USA on the lee side of the Rockies, that frequently can be flight level 600. Commercial air traffic is usually around flight level 350.
I'm also not sure you would want to target a moving airplane for a extra dose of sun. I'd think the part that it didn't shadow on the ground might be a problem as it moves all over.
Chris S_2 wrote: After all,
Oops, I forgot the <sarcasm></sarcasm> indicators.
My point was that those industries were ALL the dominant products in their field, but are now relegated to minor niches due to superior products being developed. (Superior is a point of view).
Seti Classic Final Total: 11446 WU.
For aircraft there is a
For aircraft there is a combination of three ways you could acquire the electricity needed to fly:
Aircraft tend to fly a lot above the clouds, solar panels (optionally assisted by additional energy transmitted by satellites) in combination with batteries and perhaps a backup generator could provide an hybrid aircraft.
The noise reduction of full electric takeoff and landing will be more then welcome to people working and or living near airports.
All these different type of
All these different type of new energy have their drawbacks.
Microwaves from space, basically creating a deadspace from the transmitter to receivers where nothing can live or fly. That would require a revision of where planes and people would travel. Depending on the size of the collector, the area affected could be quite large. (Reference the comment on utah being covered in solar panels) Plus there is alway some stray microwaves that escape.
Laser transmission sounds safer but then still have to restrict movement or living anywhere near where they are transmitted. Then there is the issue with changing density of the matter it passes thru, air, clouds, etc which would reduce it's efficiency.
If the efficency of solar panels and pliability can be increased, waste from production and the weight decreased,then there is can be use to supplement vehicles but it's hard to see them providing all the power a plane like a 787 would need.
Compact energy in the short run might be the most plausible answer. With that, you could power small cities. Several might be able to supply enough for larger and the recharging stations to sustain transportation without the nasty byproducts.
Of course there are other types of energy that we all hear about, some purely theoretical but as we get more advance, we can test these and hopefully come up with something that will eventually remove our dependency on fossil fuels.
Sidenote, Government always wants to control how people move. If they can limit your freedom, it's easier for them to force you to submit to their rule.
Here's a good video discussing this
https://youtu.be/k8Lo0ieyQtQ
Jonathan_76 wrote:For
Solar Impulse, wingspan wider than a 747, passengers 1 - the pilot. We have a very long way to go before solar powered flight is anything but a laboratory curiosity.
Gary Charpentier wrote:Solar
Indeed, we have a long way to go before aircraft would be fully electric. Hybrid aircraft could be implemented prior to being fully electric.
If solar panels on the wings of aircraft would save as much as 10% of its fuel that would already be a significant gain!
powering aircraft by
powering aircraft by microwaves from satellites is simply not feasible. You couldn't hook up to one for a 6000 mile flight. Look at vapour trails in the sky flight paths criss cross all over the world, you'd end up shooting them all down with the energy beams.
Solar panels on aircraft are another impractical idea, you couldn't fly after dark. You can cover a whole house roof with them and only generate a fraction of the needs.
Electric powered aircraft? A fully laden 787 weighs 233 tons take off weight, and the total thrust of the two engines is 152,000 lbs. What electric engine power could do that?
Back to the drawing board!
Waiting for Godot & salvation :-)
Why do doctors have to practice?
You'd think they'd have got it right by now
That is does not currently
That is does not currently exist or is not yet possible does not mean it will never be.
All electric ships with powerful propulsion are now possible for example.
Chris S_2 wrote:Electric
Yup, that's right. Back to the drawing board. There's a good reason why NASA couldn't build the Space Shuttle in 1969...but they were successful less than 25 years later.
There's a good reason why we don't have enormous electric powered aircraft today too. But who knows what we will be capable of in 15-25 years from now? How long did it take to go from the Wright Bros to Commercial Jetliners? If it can be done, it will be...just not in a single step.
Can we build an electric motor with 76,000 (X2) lbs thrust? Maybe, but do we really need to? How about six with 25,000 lbs instead? Would probably be lighter weight and less maintenance overall. Swap out all that heavy fuel and replace with improved capacity batteries...it just might happen.
Seti Classic Final Total: 11446 WU.
Nice link about hybrid
Nice link about hybrid aircraft:
That the largest of aircraft will not be flying electric over transatlantic lines is quite obvious, but you have to start somewhere.