Regarding "The Bankers", wouldn't they have the skills to remove their assets out of the reach of the authorities.
I was thinking about one of UK's top ten richest, when a court gave him 30 days to make a ~£60 Million payment, he virtually pleaded poverty, but said it should be doable but might take longer than 30 days.
@Mike - Very well written exlantion my good sir thank you. The B-S story is typical of many financial institutions that exist on a shoe string that are in fact technically insolvent. Another case is supermarkets that deal in perishable goods with a finite shelf life. It has been estimated that Sainsbury's or Tesco could in fact be brought down, if all their stores were boycotted for a fortnight. After a few days all the perishable stock would be thown out, by the end of the week they would have cash flow problems, by the end of two weeks, they'd be on their knees, wth shareholders liquidating their holdings. All in theory of course!
Over here there is what is known as a bed and breakfast deal
In the United Kingdom, the practice whereby the holder of a security sells it at the end of the day on the last day of the financial year and buys it back the next morning. Arrangements are made between the holder of the security and the broker to accommodate the sale and repurchase.
A bed and breakfast deal is carried out to maintain an investment portfolio while minimizing capital gains taxes. Positions are closed out at the end of the year and immediately reopened on the first day of the new financial year. Because this practice intentionally seeks to limit capital gains taxes, tax authorities work to minimize the occurrence of bed and breakfast deals.
I expect you have them as well.
This of course opens the topic up to questions like 'who watches the watchdog'
Or indeed who watches who. Remember Barings Bank in 1995?
And then when you are playing for high stakes as in "futures" etc you get big wins as well. If you are a clever son of a gun dealer you strike a deal with your employer for a minimal basic salary say £25k, but with a clause that gives you just 1% of any profit you make for them. Good for the financial institution, then when the guy makes £100M and gets paid £1M bonus the press howl!!
@WK - But the really rich people have their money in property and investments in tax havens, they have fairly minimal liquid cash.
In the US that's because investment income is only charged at a 17% tax rate while ordinary income, ie a paycheck, gets taxed at a roughly 30% tax rate, if you had the money what would YOU do? MANY Politicians even setup Trusts so all of their income goes into the trust tax free and they only pay taxes on what they actually spend out of that trust. This is called a 'Charitable Trust' and requires a good bit, in the millions of dollars, to setup and run so us ordinary folks are left out of that. There are also rules on how much of the money must be used for charitable purposes, but apparently it doesn't cover what some politicians do in the way of kickbacks into the trust.
You missed one very important detail. I said "assets" i deliberately did not say cash.
And you will probably find that some of the rich don't directly own property. His wife might and his young kids might but him, no.
At one stage I rented a "rich man's apartment" and I actually spoke to him about it, 'once'. I mainly dealt with a manager. but on examining the paper work it was owned by his youngest daughter. She was 5 weeks old the day I moved in.
Regarding "The Bankers", wouldn't they have the skills to remove their assets out of the reach of the authorities.
I was thinking about one of UK's top ten richest, when a court gave him 30 days to make a ~£60 Million payment, he virtually pleaded poverty, but said it should be doable but might take longer than 30 days.
Yup. That's the 'very hard to do' bit.
As for oversight, well ..... put it this way : driving past a vineyard this morning, quite near vintage/harvest time, I saw very many small birds swirling in and down to have a munch on the nice grapes. A good sized mob can decimate a crop in days. There was what seemed to me a very good replica of a wedge-tailed eagle ( their dominant local predator ) in kite/balloon form wafting about above in the breeze on a tether. However the little birds even flew past close by it, so clearly they did not view that model as the real thing. For it to be judged as the real thing it would probably have to actually kill one or more of them. That would be rather more convincing. It would indicate intent. So deeds rather than mere appearance would be the benchmark to act upon. This I think could be relevant to the supervision of our banking sectors.
Hence DownUnda if someone uses the phrase 'government guaranteed' we either look at them strangely - perhaps waiting for what is to come forth next - or burst out laughing. :-))))
Cheers, Mike.
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
Hence DownUnda if someone uses the phrase 'government guaranteed' we either look at them strangely - perhaps waiting for what is to come forth next - or burst out laughing. :-))))
Hence DownUnda if someone uses the phrase 'government guaranteed' we either look at them strangely - perhaps waiting for what is to come forth next - or burst out laughing. :-))))
Here it simply means taxpayer on the hook.
Yes. The trick indeed. Conversion of private debt into sovereign debt ie. the well proven technique of privatising gain while socialising loss. I'd be surprised if that wasn't in play around the time of the Pharaohs, for example. T'is one of many ancient tribal mechanisms ....
Cheers, Mike.
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
Hence DownUnda if someone uses the phrase 'government guaranteed' we either look at them strangely - perhaps waiting for what is to come forth next - or burst out laughing.
Well my good Sir, might I be permitted the temerity to agree to disagree with you. As an elderly citizen* I have three pensions. One is the State pension, another is my occupational pension from a public utility, and the third is a Teachers pension. All three are index linked and Government underwritten. That means that I will get paid even if the pension funds dry up. And they were final salary based, something you don't get today. Some crap called stakeholder pensions crept in over recent years which from what I can see is not a very good deal at all.
Most people I know don't even begin to think about pensions until they are in their 40's, by which time it is far too late. The experts say start paying in from age 25. My generation were luckier than we realised.
* Commonly known as an old fart, the old git at No.42, or Victor Meldrew the 2nd.
Waiting for Godot & salvation :-)
Why do doctors have to practice?
You'd think they'd have got it right by now
Regarding "The Bankers",
Regarding "The Bankers", wouldn't they have the skills to remove their assets out of the reach of the authorities.
I was thinking about one of UK's top ten richest, when a court gave him 30 days to make a ~£60 Million payment, he virtually pleaded poverty, but said it should be doable but might take longer than 30 days.
@Mike - Very well written
@Mike - Very well written exlantion my good sir thank you. The B-S story is typical of many financial institutions that exist on a shoe string that are in fact technically insolvent. Another case is supermarkets that deal in perishable goods with a finite shelf life. It has been estimated that Sainsbury's or Tesco could in fact be brought down, if all their stores were boycotted for a fortnight. After a few days all the perishable stock would be thown out, by the end of the week they would have cash flow problems, by the end of two weeks, they'd be on their knees, wth shareholders liquidating their holdings. All in theory of course!
Over here there is what is known as a bed and breakfast deal
I expect you have them as well.
Or indeed who watches who. Remember Barings Bank in 1995?
And then when you are playing for high stakes as in "futures" etc you get big wins as well. If you are a clever son of a gun dealer you strike a deal with your employer for a minimal basic salary say £25k, but with a clause that gives you just 1% of any profit you make for them. Good for the financial institution, then when the guy makes £100M and gets paid £1M bonus the press howl!!
And what about RBS
@WK - But the really rich people have their money in property and investments in tax havens, they have fairly minimal liquid cash.
Waiting for Godot & salvation :-)
Why do doctors have to practice?
You'd think they'd have got it right by now
Chris S_2 wrote:@WK - But the
In the US that's because investment income is only charged at a 17% tax rate while ordinary income, ie a paycheck, gets taxed at a roughly 30% tax rate, if you had the money what would YOU do? MANY Politicians even setup Trusts so all of their income goes into the trust tax free and they only pay taxes on what they actually spend out of that trust. This is called a 'Charitable Trust' and requires a good bit, in the millions of dollars, to setup and run so us ordinary folks are left out of that. There are also rules on how much of the money must be used for charitable purposes, but apparently it doesn't cover what some politicians do in the way of kickbacks into the trust.
You missed one very important
You missed one very important detail. I said "assets" i deliberately did not say cash.
And you will probably find that some of the rich don't directly own property. His wife might and his young kids might but him, no.
At one stage I rented a "rich man's apartment" and I actually spoke to him about it, 'once'. I mainly dealt with a manager. but on examining the paper work it was owned by his youngest daughter. She was 5 weeks old the day I moved in.
Winterknight wrote:Regarding
Yup. That's the 'very hard to do' bit.
As for oversight, well ..... put it this way : driving past a vineyard this morning, quite near vintage/harvest time, I saw very many small birds swirling in and down to have a munch on the nice grapes. A good sized mob can decimate a crop in days. There was what seemed to me a very good replica of a wedge-tailed eagle ( their dominant local predator ) in kite/balloon form wafting about above in the breeze on a tether. However the little birds even flew past close by it, so clearly they did not view that model as the real thing. For it to be judged as the real thing it would probably have to actually kill one or more of them. That would be rather more convincing. It would indicate intent. So deeds rather than mere appearance would be the benchmark to act upon. This I think could be relevant to the supervision of our banking sectors.
Hence DownUnda if someone uses the phrase 'government guaranteed' we either look at them strangely - perhaps waiting for what is to come forth next - or burst out laughing. :-))))
Cheers, Mike.
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
Mike Hewson wrote:Hence
Here it simply means taxpayer on the hook.
Gary Charpentier wrote:Mike
Yes. The trick indeed. Conversion of private debt into sovereign debt ie. the well proven technique of privatising gain while socialising loss. I'd be surprised if that wasn't in play around the time of the Pharaohs, for example. T'is one of many ancient tribal mechanisms ....
Cheers, Mike.
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
Money can't buy happiness,
Money can't buy happiness, but it sure makes misery easier to live with.
I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted pay checks
https://www.youtube.com/watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmxC0ImDN4w
Hence DownUnda if someone
Well my good Sir, might I be permitted the temerity to agree to disagree with you. As an elderly citizen* I have three pensions. One is the State pension, another is my occupational pension from a public utility, and the third is a Teachers pension. All three are index linked and Government underwritten. That means that I will get paid even if the pension funds dry up. And they were final salary based, something you don't get today. Some crap called stakeholder pensions crept in over recent years which from what I can see is not a very good deal at all.
Most people I know don't even begin to think about pensions until they are in their 40's, by which time it is far too late. The experts say start paying in from age 25. My generation were luckier than we realised.
* Commonly known as an old fart, the old git at No.42, or Victor Meldrew the 2nd.
Waiting for Godot & salvation :-)
Why do doctors have to practice?
You'd think they'd have got it right by now