@banks: The more money an individual has stashed in them, the more it should cost them to keep it there really. Much more wear and tear on the system storing long numbers and adding and subtracting them than say 9-7 = 0.5 does, particularly when you start chucking percentages around - invoking decimal-fraction wizard spirits and whatnot... let alone the storage space needed to put it all in, in case someone didn't like having it wafted out of their account invisibly and wanted to watch it physically disappear from their hand in disbelief whilst buying one essential and "ooh... a packet of crisps too".
And it's been going on since almost the very beginning of banking *open anniet's little book of handy proven facts* which is way way too long ...
When banks were invented and untouchable gods began being installed behind those intimidating desks with weird little green lights trained on their blotters - and money was real and took up space - they didn't charge full rent and board on it. And when they should have been paying borrowers a fee for looking after it for them, (that was redeemed on completing their loan repayments and incentivising a non-default) they didn't. They got it the wrong way round. Blunder or deliberate, who knows exactly. But to give them the benefit of any doubt on the matter...
On realising their blunder, and so as to avoid rapid de-minionisation and scorn, they all agreed (with funny handshakes and everything) to keep it secret and perpetuate it in perpetuity, monstrously upon every generation since.
Yes. This is another way of describing massive fraud, people. You're right :) I know. I've audited these beasts, and our role was to contrive "legitimacy of operational transaction smokescreens" (LOOTS) to keep the secret secret but with a different type of funny handshake, because looking after and storing and dusting and counting and protecting a lot of someone's money is a lot more expensive than looking after a teeny weeny quantity of it of someone else's.
Quote:
Sir Winston is saying "I told you not to let the colonies have independence, now look at the world!"
*elevate nose into stratosphere* yeah right! What he's actually saying (while he's saying: I have nothing to offer but blood toil tears and sweat" is: “whilst I drink champagne at all meals, and buckets of claret in between.”
:)
edit: I forgot my joke... it's possibly a bit iffy, but it's just to start preparing myself mentally for getting my mum back from respite care possibly next week :) assuming I'm a bit more better than the different not very well I am now thanks to the medication that made me better from something else.
The nice thing about being senile is you can hide your own Easter eggs. ;)
Please wait here. Further instructions could pile up at any time. Thank you.
The more money an individual has stashed in them, the more it should cost them to keep it there really
Are we talking about the owner of the money or the bank? It is current custom and practice that if you deposit money in a bank, that they can use for their own financial purposes, then they will pay you for that in terms of interest. Quite how or why depositing millions of pounds just overnight in the world financial sector can be benefical rather escapes me. But there we are.
"ooh... a packet of crisps too".
And don't forget the two pints of lager!
*open anniet's little book of handy proven facts*
You don't give any bank "the benefit of any doubt on the matter", they are sharks and piranhas.
(with funny handshakes and everything)
Lloyds bank was established in 1765 in Birmingham, maybe with Masonic links, who knows. You want a Coutts account, that is pretty much a prerequisite.
and protecting a lot of someone's money is a lot more expensive than looking after a teeny weeny quantity of it of someone else's.
Er manifeste?
“whilst I drink champagne at all meals, and buckets of claret in between.”
Maybe at Chequers after the war, certainly not during it.
The nice thing about being senile is you can hide your own Easter eggs. ;)
Pssst they are behind the fridge ...
Waiting for Godot & salvation :-)
Why do doctors have to practice?
You'd think they'd have got it right by now
A little old lady who had clearly left most of her mind at home was running up and down the halls of her nursing home. Every time she came upon a man, she would flip up the gown of her nightgown and say "Supersex!"
One man, sitting in his wheelchair, upon being greeted thus, thought about it for a moment and then responded "I'll take the soup."
David
Miserable old git
Patiently waiting for the asteroid with my name on it.
A few years ago I had a girlfriend who had a 4 year old grandson named Bruce. We called him Brucey.
We were all over at her sons house and the family was watching a movie. Brucey spied a fly on the pull down blind on a window and asked if he could kill it. Bruceys dad, thinking it would just fly away, said sure go ahead.
Brucey promptly picked up a shoe and hurled it at the offending fly. Of course his aim, by pure chance, was deadly accurate and the fly, the blind, and shards of glass from the window came raining down onto the couch.
Everyone was instantly silent, waiting for the explosion from Bruceys dad, until Brucey turned around and said, "Brucey kill fly!"
So what is it called when you meet someone after 15 years, and you know exacttly who they are, where from, and when you last met, but you can't remember their name?
Old age, senility, losing the plot, name blindness?
Waiting for Godot & salvation :-)
Why do doctors have to practice?
You'd think they'd have got it right by now
edit: I forgot my joke... it's possibly a bit iffy, but it's just to start preparing myself mentally for getting my mum back from respite care possibly next week :) assuming I'm a bit more better than the different not very well I am now thanks to the medication that made me better from something else.
The nice thing about being senile is you can hide your own Easter eggs. ;)
I hope both you and your mum feel better soon!!
ChrisS wrote:
Quite how or why depositing millions of pounds just overnight in the world financial sector can be benefical rather escapes me.
The idea is to loan money to other banks so they can pay their bills tomorrow and then they pay you back the money you loaned them plus interest. Sometimes it can be for just a few minutes or hours, other times a bit longer but rarely more than about 24 hours or they can get into other banking rules. The other option is to invest in "puts" and "calls" in the overseas stock markets, there is one open somewhere in the World 24/7, and you can make money that way too. You can also LOSE money that way but banks tend to hedge their bets so Coke, Pepsi and or course Schweppes are all invested in in case just one of them goes down and you are only in it. Billions of dollars can be transferred overnight between banks for these and other purposes, in America the Fed is also doing this on a daily basis although they are prohibited by Law from making a profit beyond the cost of doing business. They therefore tend to only lend to HUGE institutions and not to the local bank on the corner.
An interesting side note a friend became a Security Advisor for the Fed and was talking to them about security in general, most of the people in charge had basic security but had never thought about what would happen if they were refused access to their buildings due to a chemical or biological attack. My friend enlightened them and they took some precautions and a couple of months later some enterprising young men got caught trying to use tear gas to break into one of the Fed Bank Buildings. The Fed Bank Buildings do NOT hold money, they hold transaction records for their Districts, but to not have access to the building would mean a delay in accessing that data as some records are only accessible on site due to security concerns. They now have TONS more protection than they did before including the usual door locks with keys, keypads, eye scanners and more that he couldn't talk about! Forcing the guys in charge to think 'bigger' helped them come up with a much better protected environment for the building, it's employees and it's data.
So what is it called when you meet someone after 15 years, and you know exacttly who they are, where from, and when you last met, but you can't remember their name?
Old age, senility, losing the plot, name blindness?
The idea is to loan money to other banks so they can pay their bills tomorrow and then they pay you back the money you loaned them plus interest. Sometimes it can be for just a few minutes or hours, other times a bit longer but rarely more than about 24 hours or they can get into other banking rules.
So you are seriously telling me that every bank in the world needs to borrow millions of pounds overnight, just to pay their debts and maintain liquidity??
And you are also seriously telling me that a bank might need to borrow millions just for a few minutes to stay in business??
In which case it is a modern miracle that the worlds financial system hasn't collapsed. Sounds like Peter to pay Paul to pay Peter, to pay Paul. No wonder you never see a poor banker.
Waiting for Godot & salvation :-)
Why do doctors have to practice?
You'd think they'd have got it right by now
So you are seriously telling me that every bank in the world needs to borrow millions of pounds overnight, just to pay their debts and maintain liquidity??
And you are also seriously telling me that a bank might need to borrow millions just for a few minutes to stay in business??
In which case it is a modern miracle that the worlds financial system hasn't collapsed. Sounds like Peter to pay Paul to pay Peter, to pay Paul. No wonder you never see a poor banker.
- correct, but only some banks.
- yes, sort of.
- yes.
21C Merchant Banking 101 :
Bear-Stearns before it collapsed in 2008 owed roughly 100 times what it owned. Each night for several decades it would (re-) borrow the money it needed to operate. A guy in Bear-Sterns would ring up another guy in one of the other banks just further up Wall Street and ask for a given amount as a 24hr loan. Usually a couple a billion. As you do. With some percentage shaved for the other bank of course. Provided B-S made more money loaning it out to other mobs in some financial deal, minus expenses etc, then all was apparently well. Profits were mainly taken home, not left in as capital.
Normally the guy in B-S and the other bank would make respective little notes about each daily transaction. Often the formal paperwork was done several days later and maybe even settling up the actual amounts at the end of the week. All cool. All relaxed. Everybody friends. No problemo. Of course everybody in on the deal making personal lucre in tidy piles. After all, it's not their money they are gambling with. Then with one thing and another : everyone and their dog was asking B-S for their money back. Now the guy in B-S, when it came time to do the paperwork for a certain 24 hour transaction done several days ago, said "we never had that conversation". This is known in Wall Street as a D-K as in "I Don't Know you". If you liken this to a handshake deal, then effectively one of the hands fell off at the wrist leaving the other guy holding a spare/useless hand. Plus if you D-K just once then everybody ignores you forever.
So now one chain link has snapped, and triggers a sequence of defaults far and wide. Hence maybe hard working people in Uzbekistan saved up & loaned some money to the nice guy in Tashkent, who with other inputs then bought shares in a deal in Dubai, which then leveraged ( ie. actually paid for ) an asset in Frankfurt, which in turn was used as part collateral for a loan from Hong-Kong, which ..... etc .... etc .... was presented to B-S in response to an investment portfolio/offering. You get the idea. A border-less web.
You might ask : where did the money 'go' ? Alot of it was paid to build houses, and hence the value is sitting wherever they are : immovable bricks & mortar. Alot of it went out of jurisdiction, via the bankers themselves, because they weren't dumb enough to leave their own money in for when the music stopped playing. Especially if they knew the tune ( as they wrote it ) and how many bars were left to play.
{ This of course opens the topic up to questions like 'who watches the watchdog' in the ( E@H dreaded ) category of politics. You can't actually disentangle monetary policy ( what central/reserve banks do ) from fiscal policy ( what sovereign governments do ). So trusting a banker becomes equivalent to trusting a politician. Nuff said. }
As for 'why?', well that takes longer to explain ...... the short answer is that with fiat currencies ( assumed value ) that value is trust related. In these instances that trust is truly defined by the actual experience of interaction with anybody who has enough of it to influence events. However trust can be stacked/concatenated eg. "I know a guy who knows this other guy who said ... " A very scaled up version of : Can I borrow your spade to dig my garden ? I'll give it back tomorrow ..... only I don't ...... and then you have to go down to the police station & look in the evidence locker, because it was found at the scene of a robbery ! :-)))
Then they have their own words to cover the action, say 'tranche', which is just fancy for 'trench' ie. a hole long, deep and wide enough to be buried in. :-)))
Cheers, Mike.
( edit ) How to fix this trust problem ? Not too hard to say, but very hard to do. Put the pilots in the front of the planes. Not up the back. No parachutes for them. That way they die first when the mountain cometh. Sharpens the judgement superbly. The bankers must be the first to lose, their own money, and all of it without restraint if needed. No exceptions. That's what the rest of us do daily.
( edit ) Oh, and in case you are wondering : no. There have been no structural/procedural/legal changes enacted to prevent a recurrence of 2008. Only press releases, mission statements, chair swapping & photo-ops. No systemic alterations to reduce that risk what-so-ever. Thus when people are dumb enough to trust them again, it will happen again. Newborn people are the best candidates, because history is whatever happened before they turned up.
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
@banks: The more money an
@banks: The more money an individual has stashed in them, the more it should cost them to keep it there really. Much more wear and tear on the system storing long numbers and adding and subtracting them than say 9-7 = 0.5 does, particularly when you start chucking percentages around - invoking decimal-fraction wizard spirits and whatnot... let alone the storage space needed to put it all in, in case someone didn't like having it wafted out of their account invisibly and wanted to watch it physically disappear from their hand in disbelief whilst buying one essential and "ooh... a packet of crisps too".
And it's been going on since almost the very beginning of banking *open anniet's little book of handy proven facts* which is way way too long ...
Yes. This is another way of describing massive fraud, people. You're right :) I know. I've audited these beasts, and our role was to contrive "legitimacy of operational transaction smokescreens" (LOOTS) to keep the secret secret but with a different type of funny handshake, because looking after and storing and dusting and counting and protecting a lot of someone's money is a lot more expensive than looking after a teeny weeny quantity of it of someone else's.
*elevate nose into stratosphere* yeah right! What he's actually saying (while he's saying: I have nothing to offer but blood toil tears and sweat" is: “whilst I drink champagne at all meals, and buckets of claret in between.”
:)
edit: I forgot my joke... it's possibly a bit iffy, but it's just to start preparing myself mentally for getting my mum back from respite care possibly next week :) assuming I'm a bit more better than the different not very well I am now thanks to the medication that made me better from something else.
The nice thing about being senile is you can hide your own Easter eggs. ;)
Please wait here. Further instructions could pile up at any time. Thank you.
My dearly revered Lady,The
My dearly revered Lady,
Are we talking about the owner of the money or the bank? It is current custom and practice that if you deposit money in a bank, that they can use for their own financial purposes, then they will pay you for that in terms of interest. Quite how or why depositing millions of pounds just overnight in the world financial sector can be benefical rather escapes me. But there we are.
And don't forget the two pints of lager!
You don't give any bank "the benefit of any doubt on the matter", they are sharks and piranhas.
Lloyds bank was established in 1765 in Birmingham, maybe with Masonic links, who knows. You want a Coutts account, that is pretty much a prerequisite.
Er manifeste?
Maybe at Chequers after the war, certainly not during it.
Pssst they are behind the fridge ...
Waiting for Godot & salvation :-)
Why do doctors have to practice?
You'd think they'd have got it right by now
anniet wrote:@banks: ... than
I see you have their math down for telling you how much is in your account after you make a withdrawal.
SUPERSEX A little old
SUPERSEX
A little old lady who had clearly left most of her mind at home was running up and down the halls of her nursing home. Every time she came upon a man, she would flip up the gown of her nightgown and say "Supersex!"
One man, sitting in his wheelchair, upon being greeted thus, thought about it for a moment and then responded "I'll take the soup."
David
Miserable old git
Patiently waiting for the asteroid with my name on it.
Gotta love kids: A few years
Gotta love kids:
A few years ago I had a girlfriend who had a 4 year old grandson named Bruce. We called him Brucey.
We were all over at her sons house and the family was watching a movie. Brucey spied a fly on the pull down blind on a window and asked if he could kill it. Bruceys dad, thinking it would just fly away, said sure go ahead.
Brucey promptly picked up a shoe and hurled it at the offending fly. Of course his aim, by pure chance, was deadly accurate and the fly, the blind, and shards of glass from the window came raining down onto the couch.
Everyone was instantly silent, waiting for the explosion from Bruceys dad, until Brucey turned around and said, "Brucey kill fly!"
We howled with laughter for a long time.
I've just learnt a new word
I've just learnt a new word today!!
Prosopagnosia
So what is it called when you meet someone after 15 years, and you know exacttly who they are, where from, and when you last met, but you can't remember their name?
Old age, senility, losing the plot, name blindness?
Waiting for Godot & salvation :-)
Why do doctors have to practice?
You'd think they'd have got it right by now
anniet wrote: edit: I forgot
I hope both you and your mum feel better soon!!
The idea is to loan money to other banks so they can pay their bills tomorrow and then they pay you back the money you loaned them plus interest. Sometimes it can be for just a few minutes or hours, other times a bit longer but rarely more than about 24 hours or they can get into other banking rules. The other option is to invest in "puts" and "calls" in the overseas stock markets, there is one open somewhere in the World 24/7, and you can make money that way too. You can also LOSE money that way but banks tend to hedge their bets so Coke, Pepsi and or course Schweppes are all invested in in case just one of them goes down and you are only in it. Billions of dollars can be transferred overnight between banks for these and other purposes, in America the Fed is also doing this on a daily basis although they are prohibited by Law from making a profit beyond the cost of doing business. They therefore tend to only lend to HUGE institutions and not to the local bank on the corner.
An interesting side note a friend became a Security Advisor for the Fed and was talking to them about security in general, most of the people in charge had basic security but had never thought about what would happen if they were refused access to their buildings due to a chemical or biological attack. My friend enlightened them and they took some precautions and a couple of months later some enterprising young men got caught trying to use tear gas to break into one of the Fed Bank Buildings. The Fed Bank Buildings do NOT hold money, they hold transaction records for their Districts, but to not have access to the building would mean a delay in accessing that data as some records are only accessible on site due to security concerns. They now have TONS more protection than they did before including the usual door locks with keys, keypads, eye scanners and more that he couldn't talk about! Forcing the guys in charge to think 'bigger' helped them come up with a much better protected environment for the building, it's employees and it's data.
Chris S_2 wrote:So what is it
I hate it when that happens.
Bill
.
The idea is to loan money to
The idea is to loan money to other banks so they can pay their bills tomorrow and then they pay you back the money you loaned them plus interest. Sometimes it can be for just a few minutes or hours, other times a bit longer but rarely more than about 24 hours or they can get into other banking rules.
So you are seriously telling me that every bank in the world needs to borrow millions of pounds overnight, just to pay their debts and maintain liquidity??
And you are also seriously telling me that a bank might need to borrow millions just for a few minutes to stay in business??
In which case it is a modern miracle that the worlds financial system hasn't collapsed. Sounds like Peter to pay Paul to pay Peter, to pay Paul. No wonder you never see a poor banker.
Waiting for Godot & salvation :-)
Why do doctors have to practice?
You'd think they'd have got it right by now
Chris S_2 wrote:The idea is
- correct, but only some banks.
- yes, sort of.
- yes.
21C Merchant Banking 101 :
Bear-Stearns before it collapsed in 2008 owed roughly 100 times what it owned. Each night for several decades it would (re-) borrow the money it needed to operate. A guy in Bear-Sterns would ring up another guy in one of the other banks just further up Wall Street and ask for a given amount as a 24hr loan. Usually a couple a billion. As you do. With some percentage shaved for the other bank of course. Provided B-S made more money loaning it out to other mobs in some financial deal, minus expenses etc, then all was apparently well. Profits were mainly taken home, not left in as capital.
Normally the guy in B-S and the other bank would make respective little notes about each daily transaction. Often the formal paperwork was done several days later and maybe even settling up the actual amounts at the end of the week. All cool. All relaxed. Everybody friends. No problemo. Of course everybody in on the deal making personal lucre in tidy piles. After all, it's not their money they are gambling with. Then with one thing and another : everyone and their dog was asking B-S for their money back. Now the guy in B-S, when it came time to do the paperwork for a certain 24 hour transaction done several days ago, said "we never had that conversation". This is known in Wall Street as a D-K as in "I Don't Know you". If you liken this to a handshake deal, then effectively one of the hands fell off at the wrist leaving the other guy holding a spare/useless hand. Plus if you D-K just once then everybody ignores you forever.
So now one chain link has snapped, and triggers a sequence of defaults far and wide. Hence maybe hard working people in Uzbekistan saved up & loaned some money to the nice guy in Tashkent, who with other inputs then bought shares in a deal in Dubai, which then leveraged ( ie. actually paid for ) an asset in Frankfurt, which in turn was used as part collateral for a loan from Hong-Kong, which ..... etc .... etc .... was presented to B-S in response to an investment portfolio/offering. You get the idea. A border-less web.
You might ask : where did the money 'go' ? Alot of it was paid to build houses, and hence the value is sitting wherever they are : immovable bricks & mortar. Alot of it went out of jurisdiction, via the bankers themselves, because they weren't dumb enough to leave their own money in for when the music stopped playing. Especially if they knew the tune ( as they wrote it ) and how many bars were left to play.
{ This of course opens the topic up to questions like 'who watches the watchdog' in the ( E@H dreaded ) category of politics. You can't actually disentangle monetary policy ( what central/reserve banks do ) from fiscal policy ( what sovereign governments do ). So trusting a banker becomes equivalent to trusting a politician. Nuff said. }
As for 'why?', well that takes longer to explain ...... the short answer is that with fiat currencies ( assumed value ) that value is trust related. In these instances that trust is truly defined by the actual experience of interaction with anybody who has enough of it to influence events. However trust can be stacked/concatenated eg. "I know a guy who knows this other guy who said ... " A very scaled up version of : Can I borrow your spade to dig my garden ? I'll give it back tomorrow ..... only I don't ...... and then you have to go down to the police station & look in the evidence locker, because it was found at the scene of a robbery ! :-)))
Then they have their own words to cover the action, say 'tranche', which is just fancy for 'trench' ie. a hole long, deep and wide enough to be buried in. :-)))
Cheers, Mike.
( edit ) How to fix this trust problem ? Not too hard to say, but very hard to do. Put the pilots in the front of the planes. Not up the back. No parachutes for them. That way they die first when the mountain cometh. Sharpens the judgement superbly. The bankers must be the first to lose, their own money, and all of it without restraint if needed. No exceptions. That's what the rest of us do daily.
( edit ) Oh, and in case you are wondering : no. There have been no structural/procedural/legal changes enacted to prevent a recurrence of 2008. Only press releases, mission statements, chair swapping & photo-ops. No systemic alterations to reduce that risk what-so-ever. Thus when people are dumb enough to trust them again, it will happen again. Newborn people are the best candidates, because history is whatever happened before they turned up.
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal