Well I just mentioned those 2 sets of values, as some sort of idea as to speedup - I agree that something more scientific would really be needed to get a decent answer.
I suspect that, apart from the optimised building of the entire system which occurs in Gentoo (including a skimpy kernel), one not entirely insignificant factor is that SUSE with KDE had somewhere around 70 - 80 processes lurking in "top", granted not all running all the time, but kicking in now and again, compared, to 41 at the moment in Gentoo with Fluxbox, with BOINC and Firefox running.
I guess the more times per second the processor gets directed to another process, the less efficient it might be at crunching - certainly when I stopped services on the XP side of this box I got more speed.
Unfortunately I only did the one WU before I lost patience with SUSE (control freak, me) and went back to Gentoo, so I leave any future testing to someone else, as I have no intention of spending another 2 days re-installing Gentoo in the near future.
Einstein comes as a static app, no? So any changes to the userland are irrelevant...
Hello Pav Lucistnik
Yup Einstein is supplied pre-built by the server.
In my case, the idea has been to try to get as many WU done as possible in as short a time as possible. The app, as I understand it will only use unused cpu cycles, so the more of those I can provide the better.
In my case this is done by using an OS with the bare minimum of services on a system as optimised as I can get it, whether in XP or in Linux.
I recall somewhere reading there would exist a test WU. Unfortunately I don't recall it's for S5, and I don't seem to be able to find the thread mentioning it. But if that WU exist for S5, and it doesn't take too long to process it, I would seriously consider that unit to compare two (or possibly more) compilations of Debian.
Einstein comes as a static app, no? So any changes to the userland are irrelevant...
Nope.
[pre]
$ ldd einstein_S5R1_4.01_i686-pc-linux-gnu
linux-gate.so.1 => (0xffffe000)
libdl.so.2 => /chroot/etch-ia32/lib/tls/libdl.so.2 (0xf7ef5000)
libm.so.6 => /chroot/etch-ia32/lib/tls/libm.so.6 (0xf7ecf000)
libpthread.so.0 => /chroot/etch-ia32/lib/tls/libpthread.so.0 (0xf7ebc000)
libc.so.6 => /chroot/etch-ia32/lib/tls/libc.so.6 (0xf7d84000)
/lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0xf7f0f000)
[/pre]
The above says it's using distro's libm.so and libc.so (among others). Which gives some room for improvement in case of custom-build shared libraries (as done during installation of gentoo) over distro-provided ones.
I've been checking for info on the libc library. With Debian Sarge, there appears to be a libc optimised for i686. I've got to upgrade my kernel to 2.6 though. I still use 2.4 as this has pcmcia modules as package. At the time, that choice seemed to be obvious, but I'm learning more and more. So that's probably not gonna be a problem...
It doesn't seem to be possible to compile libc from source. So another option is to give up on Debian and move to Gentoo. Does anyone have experience with both Debian and Gentoo? I was wondering if it would be too hard for an almost-newbie like me to install Gentoo. I read it is quite difficult. It also concerns me the sacrifice of stability to speed things up. But that's probably just relative...
I've been checking for info on the libc library. With Debian Sarge, there appears to be a libc optimised for i686. I've got to upgrade my kernel to 2.6 though. I still use 2.4 as this has pcmcia modules as package. At the time, that choice seemed to be obvious, but I'm learning more and more. So that's probably not gonna be a problem...
It doesn't seem to be possible to compile libc from source. So another option is to give up on Debian and move to Gentoo. Does anyone have experience with both Debian and Gentoo? I was wondering if it would be too hard for an almost-newbie like me to install Gentoo. I read it is quite difficult. It also concerns me the sacrifice of stability to speed things up. But that's probably just relative...
Regards,
Bert
Hi Bert
Well as it happens I'm on Gentoo right now - busy recompiling the entire system specifically for a reasonable amount of stability, but with as much speed as I can get: been doing a fair amount of reading about GCC optimisation etc...
Gentoo has become somewhat more stable in the last 8 months. Prior to that it was as close to the cutting edge as possible, but I seemed to be able to bolix the system a bit too easily at that time, so at that time I tried Kubuntu, SUSE, and Debian. Around Feb of this year I gave up and returned to Gentoo, running dual-boot with XP (partly for the games, partly because I purchased Topstyle Pro - the sheer ability of which I have yet to see being beat, for my purposes anyhow, and yes I HAVE tried Bluefish - and partly 'cos I paid for XP and don't feel like throwing mney away...)
Anyhow, to get back to your question, Gentoo ain't all that hard BUT READ THE MANUAL !!!! (when you get the minimal CD it will give you the command to fire up the text browser called links which will take you to the install manual. I cannot emphasize that enough... http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/index.xml
The actual process of getting a base install is easy enough and just for the record, I use "genkernel --menuconfig all" which allows me to fiddle with the kernel with ease. The only big downside to Gentoo is compiling time, especially if the PC is your main source of entertainment. A hint: ensure sound support is set to modules, and the code "rc-update add alsasound default", once alsaconf has done it's work - see bottom of this post, obviosly minus the quotes, will fire up sound.
The Gentoo forums are usually very useful, and pretty much any issue you are likely to come across has been already solved. Have a look at the USE words, and add the stuff you might want for avi and mp3 capability etc.
Happy compiling !!
Gray
PS: For sound, emerge "alsa-tools" and "alsa-utils".You would need to say which modules to use and unmute the sound channels - this is done using "alsaconf" which is included in one of the previously mentioned 2 progs.
Thanks, I've been browsing around a bit looking for info on installing Gentoo. Sounds great! It also seems to be quite straightforward for my laptop. It'll probably won't hurt to try a different "flavour" of Linux.
I've also been looking around for that "test WU" I recalled. Unfortunately, I can't find it, or it doesn't exist. It is too much trouble to re-crunch a standard WU as that takes far too long. I don't really like the idea of a couple of weeks of testing just to get a bit of adequate statistics. So I'll keep on looking for another method for comparison of a couple changes in/of my OS. Perhaps the ol' benchmarking will suffice. Or, eventually, I'll get along with the crude comparison of "comparable" WUs...
Thanks, I've been browsing around a bit looking for info on installing Gentoo. Sounds great! It also seems to be quite straightforward for my laptop. It'll probably won't hurt to try a different "flavour" of Linux.
I've also been looking around for that "test WU" I recalled. Unfortunately, I can't find it, or it doesn't exist. It is too much trouble to re-crunch a standard WU as that takes far too long. I don't really like the idea of a couple of weeks of testing just to get a bit of adequate statistics. So I'll keep on looking for another method for comparison of a couple changes in/of my OS. Perhaps the ol' benchmarking will suffice. Or, eventually, I'll get along with the crude comparison of "comparable" WUs...
Hello Bert
Yep - It's not that difficult, just don't have a glass or 2 of wine and then in a fit of enthusiasm try to do the install :) - you at least have to be able to type correctly - I would suggest the text install as I believe the 2006 GUI install is not perfect.
Check the Gentoo Forums for info on that laptop internet connection - is it wireless ? If it is adsl via dhcp you will have no issues, as I discovered after a couple years on dialup (what a nightmare - lucky Einstein WU were small in the old days !).
Have fun - Gray
PS: once you have the base install and can reboot etc, install "gentoolkit" - its a useful app.
Thanks, I've been browsing around a bit looking for info on installing Gentoo. Sounds great! It also seems to be quite straightforward for my laptop. It'll probably won't hurt to try a different "flavour" of Linux.
I've also been looking around for that "test WU" I recalled. Unfortunately, I can't find it, or it doesn't exist. It is too much trouble to re-crunch a standard WU as that takes far too long. I don't really like the idea of a couple of weeks of testing just to get a bit of adequate statistics. So I'll keep on looking for another method for comparison of a couple changes in/of my OS. Perhaps the ol' benchmarking will suffice. Or, eventually, I'll get along with the crude comparison of "comparable" WUs...
Hello Bert
Just two more suggestions - add "symlink" to your USE keywords - whenever the kernel gets updated the symlink automatically gets updated this way too, then all you need to do is tell genkernel where the kernel config is, and after compiling the new kernel, update grub.conf to the new version - that way you get to keep on crunching Einstein happily for quite a while !
Secondly -don't go overboard with the optimizations - see below for my make.conf for a system with full music, video, e-mail, browser and boinc support - I am fiddling with the USE keywords at the moment, so maybe keep them simple for your first time:
Thanks Gray! You're giving me a flying start. I'll need to read some more stuff, but I'll certainly will recall your comments.
In the meantime, I plan to do hourly benchmarking, such that I could compare several changes in my system. So I've written a little script and added it to root's crontab. It runs, it kills boinc, but it doesn't restart boinc at all. When run manually, everything is working fine. Maybe something is wrong, so here is the script:
#!/bin/bash
#Script to restart boinc with benchmark running
#run as root
#Set path of boinc client
RUNPATH="/home/bert/Library/Software/BOINC_5.2.13/BOINC/"
#Set command line options
CMD_OPTIONS="-return_results_immediately -run_cpu_benchmarks -dir /var/lib/boinc-client/ -daemon"
killall boinc
cd $RUNPATH
boinc $CMD_OPTIONS
To be complete, here's the crontab entry (for root): 17 * 16-17 7 * /home/bert/scripts/BOINC/BOINC_cron
My plan is to try this for a while on my current system to get a bit of adequate statistics. Then try the same fo a Linux-live CD, possibly a kernel and libc upgrade, and of course for Gentoo.
Thanks again for the very helpfull posts.
Bert
edit: it doesn't run as a daemon either, so perhaps it's terminated after completion of the cronjob
Hello Well I just
)
Hello
Well I just mentioned those 2 sets of values, as some sort of idea as to speedup - I agree that something more scientific would really be needed to get a decent answer.
I suspect that, apart from the optimised building of the entire system which occurs in Gentoo (including a skimpy kernel), one not entirely insignificant factor is that SUSE with KDE had somewhere around 70 - 80 processes lurking in "top", granted not all running all the time, but kicking in now and again, compared, to 41 at the moment in Gentoo with Fluxbox, with BOINC and Firefox running.
I guess the more times per second the processor gets directed to another process, the less efficient it might be at crunching - certainly when I stopped services on the XP side of this box I got more speed.
Unfortunately I only did the one WU before I lost patience with SUSE (control freak, me) and went back to Gentoo, so I leave any future testing to someone else, as I have no intention of spending another 2 days re-installing Gentoo in the near future.
Cheers - Gray
RE: Einstein comes as a
)
Hello Pav Lucistnik
Yup Einstein is supplied pre-built by the server.
In my case, the idea has been to try to get as many WU done as possible in as short a time as possible. The app, as I understand it will only use unused cpu cycles, so the more of those I can provide the better.
In my case this is done by using an OS with the bare minimum of services on a system as optimised as I can get it, whether in XP or in Linux.
Cheers - Gray
I recall somewhere reading
)
I recall somewhere reading there would exist a test WU. Unfortunately I don't recall it's for S5, and I don't seem to be able to find the thread mentioning it. But if that WU exist for S5, and it doesn't take too long to process it, I would seriously consider that unit to compare two (or possibly more) compilations of Debian.
Could anyone fill that gap in my head?
Cheers!
Somnio ergo sum
RE: Einstein comes as a
)
Nope.
[pre]
$ ldd einstein_S5R1_4.01_i686-pc-linux-gnu
linux-gate.so.1 => (0xffffe000)
libdl.so.2 => /chroot/etch-ia32/lib/tls/libdl.so.2 (0xf7ef5000)
libm.so.6 => /chroot/etch-ia32/lib/tls/libm.so.6 (0xf7ecf000)
libpthread.so.0 => /chroot/etch-ia32/lib/tls/libpthread.so.0 (0xf7ebc000)
libc.so.6 => /chroot/etch-ia32/lib/tls/libc.so.6 (0xf7d84000)
/lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0xf7f0f000)
[/pre]
The above says it's using distro's libm.so and libc.so (among others). Which gives some room for improvement in case of custom-build shared libraries (as done during installation of gentoo) over distro-provided ones.
Metod ...
I've been checking for info
)
I've been checking for info on the libc library. With Debian Sarge, there appears to be a libc optimised for i686. I've got to upgrade my kernel to 2.6 though. I still use 2.4 as this has pcmcia modules as package. At the time, that choice seemed to be obvious, but I'm learning more and more. So that's probably not gonna be a problem...
It doesn't seem to be possible to compile libc from source. So another option is to give up on Debian and move to Gentoo. Does anyone have experience with both Debian and Gentoo? I was wondering if it would be too hard for an almost-newbie like me to install Gentoo. I read it is quite difficult. It also concerns me the sacrifice of stability to speed things up. But that's probably just relative...
Regards,
Bert
Somnio ergo sum
RE: I've been checking for
)
Hi Bert
Well as it happens I'm on Gentoo right now - busy recompiling the entire system specifically for a reasonable amount of stability, but with as much speed as I can get: been doing a fair amount of reading about GCC optimisation etc...
Gentoo has become somewhat more stable in the last 8 months. Prior to that it was as close to the cutting edge as possible, but I seemed to be able to bolix the system a bit too easily at that time, so at that time I tried Kubuntu, SUSE, and Debian. Around Feb of this year I gave up and returned to Gentoo, running dual-boot with XP (partly for the games, partly because I purchased Topstyle Pro - the sheer ability of which I have yet to see being beat, for my purposes anyhow, and yes I HAVE tried Bluefish - and partly 'cos I paid for XP and don't feel like throwing mney away...)
Anyhow, to get back to your question, Gentoo ain't all that hard BUT READ THE MANUAL !!!! (when you get the minimal CD it will give you the command to fire up the text browser called links which will take you to the install manual. I cannot emphasize that enough... http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/index.xml
There is plenty of info re; Gentoo here: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/list.xml
The actual process of getting a base install is easy enough and just for the record, I use "genkernel --menuconfig all" which allows me to fiddle with the kernel with ease. The only big downside to Gentoo is compiling time, especially if the PC is your main source of entertainment. A hint: ensure sound support is set to modules, and the code "rc-update add alsasound default", once alsaconf has done it's work - see bottom of this post, obviosly minus the quotes, will fire up sound.
The Gentoo forums are usually very useful, and pretty much any issue you are likely to come across has been already solved. Have a look at the USE words, and add the stuff you might want for avi and mp3 capability etc.
Happy compiling !!
Gray
PS: For sound, emerge "alsa-tools" and "alsa-utils".You would need to say which modules to use and unmute the sound channels - this is done using "alsaconf" which is included in one of the previously mentioned 2 progs.
Thanks, I've been browsing
)
Thanks, I've been browsing around a bit looking for info on installing Gentoo. Sounds great! It also seems to be quite straightforward for my laptop. It'll probably won't hurt to try a different "flavour" of Linux.
I've also been looking around for that "test WU" I recalled. Unfortunately, I can't find it, or it doesn't exist. It is too much trouble to re-crunch a standard WU as that takes far too long. I don't really like the idea of a couple of weeks of testing just to get a bit of adequate statistics. So I'll keep on looking for another method for comparison of a couple changes in/of my OS. Perhaps the ol' benchmarking will suffice. Or, eventually, I'll get along with the crude comparison of "comparable" WUs...
Somnio ergo sum
RE: Thanks, I've been
)
Hello Bert
Yep - It's not that difficult, just don't have a glass or 2 of wine and then in a fit of enthusiasm try to do the install :) - you at least have to be able to type correctly - I would suggest the text install as I believe the 2006 GUI install is not perfect.
Check the Gentoo Forums for info on that laptop internet connection - is it wireless ? If it is adsl via dhcp you will have no issues, as I discovered after a couple years on dialup (what a nightmare - lucky Einstein WU were small in the old days !).
Have fun - Gray
PS: once you have the base install and can reboot etc, install "gentoolkit" - its a useful app.
RE: Thanks, I've been
)
Hello Bert
Just two more suggestions - add "symlink" to your USE keywords - whenever the kernel gets updated the symlink automatically gets updated this way too, then all you need to do is tell genkernel where the kernel config is, and after compiling the new kernel, update grub.conf to the new version - that way you get to keep on crunching Einstein happily for quite a while !
Secondly -don't go overboard with the optimizations - see below for my make.conf for a system with full music, video, e-mail, browser and boinc support - I am fiddling with the USE keywords at the moment, so maybe keep them simple for your first time:
CFLAGS="-O3 -march=pentium4 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer"
CHOST="i686-pc-linux-gnu"
CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS}"
USE="-3dfx -3dnow -Xaw3d X -a52 aac aalib -accessibility -acl -afs -aim akode
alsa -altivec -apache -apache2 -apm -arts asf -audiofile bash-completion bcmath -bidi -birdstep -bluetooth bzip2 -canna -caps -cdb -chasen -cjk -clamav -crypt -cscope -cups -db2 -debug dri -dv -dvb -dvdr -eds -emacs -emacs-w3 -empress -empress-bcs esd ffmpeg -foomaticdb gif -gnome -gphoto2 gpm -gps -gstreamer -gtk -gtk2 hal -ieee1394 -imagemagick -ipv6 -jabber javascript -joystick jpeg -junit kde libwww mad -mng -mono mp3 mpeg -msession -msn -mule -nas -netboot -neXt ncurses -ocaml -oci8 -ofx -oss -pcmia -pda ogg opengl pdf png qt4 readline -scanner sdl -slp -smartcard -speex spell sse2 svg svga symlink tiff truetype unicode -v4l vcd vorbis -wifi win32codecs xine xml xmms -xosd -xprint xv xvid -yahoo"
MAKEOPTS="-j2"
AUTOCLEAN="yes"
INPUT_DEVICES="keyboard mouse"
VIDEO_CARDS="nv nvidia%"
Enjoy - Gray
Thanks Gray! You're giving me
)
Thanks Gray! You're giving me a flying start. I'll need to read some more stuff, but I'll certainly will recall your comments.
In the meantime, I plan to do hourly benchmarking, such that I could compare several changes in my system. So I've written a little script and added it to root's crontab. It runs, it kills boinc, but it doesn't restart boinc at all. When run manually, everything is working fine. Maybe something is wrong, so here is the script:
#Script to restart boinc with benchmark running
#run as root
#Set path of boinc client
RUNPATH="/home/bert/Library/Software/BOINC_5.2.13/BOINC/"
#Set command line options
CMD_OPTIONS="-return_results_immediately -run_cpu_benchmarks -dir /var/lib/boinc-client/ -daemon"
killall boinc
cd $RUNPATH
boinc $CMD_OPTIONS
To be complete, here's the crontab entry (for root):
17 * 16-17 7 * /home/bert/scripts/BOINC/BOINC_cronMy plan is to try this for a while on my current system to get a bit of adequate statistics. Then try the same fo a Linux-live CD, possibly a kernel and libc upgrade, and of course for Gentoo.
Thanks again for the very helpfull posts.
Bert
edit: it doesn't run as a daemon either, so perhaps it's terminated after completion of the cronjob
Somnio ergo sum