using onboard grafic

LLjoerne
LLjoerne
Joined: 30 Jan 21
Posts: 5
Credit: 61,930
RAC: 566
Topic 224764

Hello!

It is possible to support w/ the following grafic card?

xyz@xzy02:~$ boinccmd --get_host_info
  timezone: 3600
  domain name: xzy
  IP addr: 127.0.1.1
  #CPUS: 2
  CPU vendor: AuthenticAMD
  CPU model: AMD Athlon(tm) II X2 240e Processor [Family 16 Model 6 Stepping 2]
  CPU FP OPS: 3333257666.531864
  CPU int OPS: 56948854209.111794
  CPU mem BW: 1000000000.000000
  OS name: Linux Debian
  OS version: Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) [4.19.0-13-amd64|libc 2.28 (Debian GLIBC 2.28-10)]
  mem size: 3873050624.000000
  cache size: 1048576.000000
  swap size: 10000265216.000000
  disk size: 48945147904.000000
  disk free: 44200484864.000000

root@xyz02:/home/jw# lspci | grep VGA 02:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation C77 [GeForce 8200] (rev a2)

Thanks for reply.

Richie
Richie
Joined: 7 Mar 14
Posts: 630
Credit: 1,696,373,120
RAC: 103,455

LLjoerne wrote:It is possible

LLjoerne wrote:

It is possible to support w/ the following grafic card?

NVIDIA Corporation C77 [GeForce 8200] (rev a2)

Hi !

That VGA chip is sadly too old. Not supported anymore by the GPU apps on this project.

 

LLjoerne
LLjoerne
Joined: 30 Jan 21
Posts: 5
Credit: 61,930
RAC: 566

Thanks for reply. How can I

Thanks for reply. How can I get information, which grafic cards are supported?

Richie
Richie
Joined: 7 Mar 14
Posts: 630
Credit: 1,696,373,120
RAC: 103,455

I believe that for 'Gamma-ray

I believe that for 'Gamma-ray pulsar binary search #1 on GPUs (FGRPB1G)' AMD and Nvidia GPU's from around 2010 onwards are compatible. GPU should preferably have at least 1GB of memory to avoid problems if you wanted to use the computer for anything else at the same time. 

Theoretically... something like GT220 from Nvidia:

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-gt-220.c2246

HD5400 series from ATI/AMD:

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/?generation=Evergreen&sort=generation

But don't buy GPUs from that generation in any situation. Test one for fun only if you got a GPU of that age for free. For crunching purposes here, in 2021 Q1 money should be put into GPU only if it's at least something like Nvidia GTX 950 or AMD Radeon R7 370. A minimal amount of money. 2GB versions would still be okay for crunching FGRPB1G tasks.

If you wanted to crunch 'Gravitational Wave search O2 Multi-Directional GPU (O2MDF)' tasks they are more demanding. Better aim straight for a GPU with at least 4GB. Minimum:

Nvidia GTX 900-series (4GB minimum):

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/?generation=GeForce+900&sort=generation

AMD RX 570:

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-rx-570.c2939

AMD would generally be a better choice between those two GPU series.

archae86
archae86
Joined: 6 Dec 05
Posts: 3,001
Credit: 4,755,676,507
RAC: 3,622,229

I'll add to Richie's comments

I'll add to Richie's comments the point that of the two currently active Einstein GPU applications, the Gamma-Ray Pulsar one is far, far less demanding of support from the host system CPU and motherboard.  People run AMD RX570 graphics cards at nearly their full capability on systems with old and modest CPUs.  However the current Gravity-Wave application makes rather heavy use of the CPU, so a modest CPU capability system will obtain a smaller fraction of possible output from the GPU.

LLjoerne
LLjoerne
Joined: 30 Jan 21
Posts: 5
Credit: 61,930
RAC: 566

Hello! Thanks for immediately

Hello! Thanks for immediately reply and support. I first explain my setup: I am using a desktop computer with 'ASUS m3n WS' mainboard. The computer acts only as a file server. Onboard grafics is used. As no monitor is connected, no additional grafic card is installed. I wanted to plug a RAID-Controller to PCI-e x16 slot. I learned from ASUS support, that the x16 slot is used only for grafic cards. Other components will not work at this x16 slot.

"Nach interner Prüfung muss ich Ihnen leider mitteilen,, dass Sie mit Ihrem Mainboard nur eine Grafikkarte im PCIe x16-Steckplatz mit maximaler Lanes betreiben können.
Leider funktioniert eine Erweiterungskarte für das RAID nicht."

Motherboard Manual: Motherboard PDF
https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/server/TW300-E5_PI4/MANUAL/e3772_M3N_ws_v2.pdf (Chpt. 2.5.7)

So, not PCI-e RAID controller possible in this slot. Bad luck for me, as it is the only slot with x16 lanes available. So, I can use this slot for supporting einstein  w/ GPU. From specification of motherbord I get the information, that this is a PCI-e2.0 x16 slot. I think, the possible grafic cards which can be used for einstein is limited as it is an old PCI-e standard. Now my query:

  1. Which grafic card is recommended to support einstein and fits to my system (PCI-e2.0 x16)? Also, it should be a low cost invest (used part)?
  2. It is plug&play.? Will the GPU be recognised by einstein/boinc and used automatically? Or is there a need to change settings and drivers?
  3. Why can a RAID controller not be used in a PCI-e x16 (grafic)slot? Or: Why are the PCI-e slots not all-purpose slots? I never heard about a distinction for grafic and non-grafic slots?

Thanks!

Richie
Richie
Joined: 7 Mar 14
Posts: 630
Credit: 1,696,373,120
RAC: 103,455

LLjoerne wrote:From

LLjoerne wrote:
From specification of motherbord I get the information, that this is a PCI-e2.0 x16 slot. I think, the possible grafic cards which can be used for einstein is limited as it is an old PCI-e standard.

It could prevent the most recent GPUs (hundreds of euros) from working but that's because they require a newer motherboard (must have UEFI, BIOS not compatible anymore). But older and cheaper "PCI-e 3.0 x16" GPUs are compatible with older motherboards that have BIOS and PCI-e 2.0 x16. My motherboard is Asus P5Q Pro (PCI-e 2.0 x16) from 2009 (your Asus A3N WS is from 2009 too). I don't have any problems running Nvidia GTX 1060 on this but I'm pretty sure that GTX 10xx-series is the limit for this and RTX 20xx-series cards woudn't work at all.

 

Quote:
3. Why can a RAID controller not be used in a PCI-e x16 (grafic)slot? Or: Why are the PCI-e slots not all-purpose slots? I never heard about a distinction for grafic and non-grafic slots?

Perhaps similar sort of thing here... talking about some Adaptec RAID card:

https://ask.adaptec.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/16991/~/why-does-the-adaptec-pci-express-card-not-work-in-a-pcie-x16-slot%3F

"The problem here is that the Adaptec BIOS code will be copied into the different memory area which is reserved for VGA cards and this corrupts the video output. Hence there is no video output."

Quote:
2. It is plug&play.? Will the GPU be recognised by einstein/boinc and used automatically? Or is there a need to change settings and drivers?

You need to

1. make sure that correct GPU drivers for that GPU are installed in Linux.

2. visit https://einsteinathome.org/account/prefs/project and choose a 'Preference set' and set that same 'Location' for your host (accessible through your computers page at this Einstein site). Then check the box 'Use NVIDIA GPU' or 'Use AMD GPU', which ever card you had. And choose the correct GPU applications that you like to run.

3. Also, allow Boinc to use your GPU. There are a couple of simple things to check on the Boinc Manager:

Boinc Manager - Activity menu ... Run GPU (Always / Based on preferences / Suspend GPU)

Boinc Manager - Options - Computation preferences... - Computing tab - When to suspend

(those options can alternatively be accessed via command line and configuration file if Boinc Manager not preferred).

 

Quote:
1. Which grafic card is recommended to support einstein and fits to my system (PCI-e2.0 x16)? Also, it should be a low cost invest (used part)?

What PSU do you have by the way (make, model)? Well, let's assume it's not extremely old and can provide enough power for a GPU that has max one 6-pin power connector. I would say... for FGRPB1G tasks:

From Nvidia: GTX 750, GTX 750 Ti, GTX 950, GTX 960

From AMD:

GCN 1.0 cards (these are only for FGRPB1G, not compatible with Gravitational Wave GPU tasks)

GCN 2.0 cards (filtered list, only models that have been available with a single 6-pin power connector)

There would be more GPU models on the lists if 2 x 6-pin or 8-pin power connectors were allowed. But that means the PSU would have to tolerate them. Those older AMD cards could then easily mean also more noise, heat and electricy consumption. An example of such card... maybe Radeon R9 270X. It could still crunch FGRPB1G tasks, but takes some juice from the socket (TDP 180W). I don't know how easy it would be to throttle it down under Linux. That GPU model also had 'GCN 1.0' architecture and wouldn't be able to run GW GPU tasks at all.

GWGeorge007
GWGeorge007
Joined: 8 Jan 18
Posts: 348
Credit: 500,551,911
RAC: 2,821,300

Richie wrote: LLjoerne

Richie wrote:

LLjoerne wrote:
From specification of motherbord I get the information, that this is a PCI-e2.0 x16 slot. I think, the possible grafic cards which can be used for einstein is limited as it is an old PCI-e standard.

It could prevent the most recent GPUs (hundreds of euros) from working but that's because they require a newer motherboard (must have UEFI, BIOS not compatible anymore). But older and cheaper "PCI-e 3.0 x16" GPUs are compatible with older motherboards that have BIOS and PCI-e 2.0 x16. My motherboard is Asus P5Q Pro (PCI-e 2.0 x16) from 2009 (your Asus A3N WS is from 2009 too). I don't have any problems running Nvidia GTX 1060 on this but I'm pretty sure that GTX 10xx-series is the limit for this and RTX 20xx-series cards woudn't work at all.

I'm not quite sure this is compatible with ASUS P5Q Pro or ASUS A3N WS, but I am running an ASUS X58 Sabretooth (PCI-e 2.0 x16) motherboard, also from 2009, with an EVGA GeForce RTX 2060 XC BLACK GAMING, 6GB GDDR6 (06G-P4-2061-KR) GPU and it does work just fine, and it is powered by an EVGA Supernova 650W 80+ Gold PSU.

To clarify, I am running Einstein and Milkyway on this very card with absolutely no problems.

George

Gary Roberts
Gary Roberts
Moderator
Joined: 9 Feb 05
Posts: 5,491
Credit: 61,749,168,792
RAC: 54,766,854

LLjoerne wrote:Which grafic

LLjoerne wrote:
Which grafic card is recommended to support einstein and fits to my system (PCI-e2.0 x16)? Also, it should be a low cost invest (used part)?

Since you could use a very wide range of relatively modern GPUs (PCI-e 2.0 is NOT a problem) the more important thing to think about is the quality of your PSU and its 12V power spec.

Since you also are running an old (and slow) CPU, and since you imply that you have a tight budget and therefore that you're interested in keeping costs down, here are a couple of suggestions for you to consider.

#1 - A second hand RX 460 or RX 560 - the type that doesn't need an external PCI-e power connector, but is able to run with what it can draw from the x16 slot (the spec for that is 60W).  I'm running quite a few of these using 300W PSUs.  The PSUs are quite old but they are of the modern 12V 'heavy' design and are 80+ efficient.  Their rating is 270W on the 12V rail.

An example of mine is a machine with a Pentium G640 dual core CPU.  It had a long term stable RAC of 240-250K.  With the change to the LATeah3001 and above tasks, the RAC is now 330K and wont be stable for another week or two.  It should get to around 360K if the current type of tasks continues.  It crunches 2 tasks in ~27.5 mins.

#2 - A second hand (or new if you can find one at the right price) RX 570.  The 8GB variety would be preferable if you ever want to run multiple GW GPU tasks - although you would need to do a full upgrade to a more modern board, RAM and CPU to run those.  The 4GB version is quite OK with the current host for GRP GPU tasks since there is no real gain in running more than 2x and only minimal CPU support is required.

An example of mine is a machine I built in 2008 based on a Q6600 core 2 quad CPU.  Its x16 slot is PCI-e 1.x - not even 2.0.  It was upgraded around 3 years ago with a 4GB RX 570.  It still has the original board and 2x2GB DDR2 RAM.  I power the system with a 450W 80+ efficient PSU that is rated for 410W on the 12V rail.  A single 8pin PCI-e power connector is required.  It had a long term stable RAC of ~500K and with the new tasks is now at ~700K and still rising.  I expect it to get to around 730-740K RAC.  It crunches 2 GRP tasks in ~13.5 mins.

Cheers,
Gary.

Richie
Richie
Joined: 7 Mar 14
Posts: 630
Credit: 1,696,373,120
RAC: 103,455

George wrote:I am running an

George wrote:
I am running an ASUS X58 Sabretooth (PCI-e 2.0 x16) motherboard, also from 2009, with an EVGA GeForce RTX 2060 XC BLACK GAMING, 6GB GDDR6 (06G-P4-2061-KR) GPU and it does work just fine, and it is powered by an EVGA Supernova 650W 80+ Gold PSU.

George, thank you for that information !! Very interesting and I will remember that for sure. I have two of those X58 Sabertooth motherboards too. My assumption had been that they also wouldn't be compatible with RTX 20xx cards. Nice to be enlightened.

What still remains is that I'm still in belief that recent AMD cards at least wouldn't work on X58 or older stuff. I mean, beginning from Radeon RX Vega series (which was successor to RX 500 series). I'm pretty sure I've read that Vega already required UEFI or something that these motherboards don't have. Or at least the next successor... RX 5000 series (Navi) ... it just can't work. No way (?) If somebody run Vega or Navi GPU with X58 and saw something else than blank monitor... I'm willing to hear! I haven't tried.

LLjoerne
LLjoerne
Joined: 30 Jan 21
Posts: 5
Credit: 61,930
RAC: 566

Hello again! I want to reply

Hello again! I want to reply to your comments. The PSU is quite old (approx. 13yrs.). It is still from an Fujitsu Scenic L, i845PM. It is still working so I never changed PSU and casing. Only motherboard and HDDs are changed, as computer serves a file server only. Now, I get two GeForce GT730 for (almost) free. So, I would like to know, if it is a compatible grafic card for supporting einstein. I am wondering, why these card are different (in shape):

  1. Package shows: Palit, PhysX, Nvidia Geforce GT730, on ventilation fan and circuit board it is written: Gigabyte, it looks similar to this: GeForce#1
  2. Package shows: Nvidia GeForce, GT730, 4GB, DDR5, 128bit, on ventilation fan and circuit board it is written: Nividia, it looks similar like this: GeForce#2

I am a bit confused, as card looks so different, even both are of the same type (GT730). GeForce#1 has a height of 1 LP, GeForce#2 is 2 LP height.

  1. Which one should I use GeForce#1 or GeForce#2?
  2. Which driver/package I have to install in Debian buster (apt-get install .....)? Note: No desktop is installed, only access via terminal.
  3. Where do I change settings for boinc/einstein to use GPU? Which file I have to adopt?
  4. Tell me, if it makes no sense at all running on my old hardware.

Thanks.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.