pending but no credit
20 Feb 2005 16:29:13 UTC
Topic 187766
(moderation:
Why do I have pending credit that just sits there but never have credit awarded?
I can see the credit "claimed", see it pending, ...
How does does credit move from claim to pending to awarded? Do I have to do something to get it awarded?
pending but no credit
)
> How does does credit move from claim to pending to awarded? Do I have to do
> something to get it awarded?
A good manual for Boinc is Paul D. Bucks BOINC Powered Projects Documentation and his FAQ therein.
For information regarding Credits look here!
Grüße vom Sänger
> Why do I have pending
)
> Why do I have pending credit that just sits there but never have credit
> awarded?
> I can see the credit "claimed", see it pending, ...
> How does does credit move from claim to pending to awarded? Do I have to do
> something to get it awarded?
>
Yes, you have to wait. In boinc cheating is diminished, if not elimited, by comparing all the returned WU results. It' drops the low and high Claimed credit, and averages the rest. This means you have to wait for everyone who has your WU to return their WUs. A WU is typically sent out to 4 people.
tony
Do I have > to do > >
)
Do I have
> to do
> > something to get it awarded?
> >
> Yes, you have to wait. In boinc cheating is diminished, if not elimited, by
> comparing all the returned WU results. It' drops the low and high Claimed
> credit, and averages the rest. This means you have to wait for everyone who
> has your WU to return their WUs. A WU is typically sent out to 4 people.
>
> tony
>
so my credit is not determined only by my work and effort but also by the work of others?? I then makes no difference in how much computer work I do but by something of others. That just does not seem right.
How is it that the site just went public yesterday and all these people have all these credits? Is that the cheating that you are mentioning? Something does not seem fair here.
> so my credit is not
)
> so my credit is not determined only by my work and effort but also by the work
> of others?? I then makes no difference in how much computer work I do but by
> something of others. That just does not seem right.
When Seti started they had a great Idea, but it was corrupted by cheaters. Seti only required that something/anything be returned and you were awarded credit in the form of one point/WU completed. Cheaters made up ways to just return junk and were getting 1000's of points/day without doing any science. Boinc changed that. Given that the computation of one WU by anyone should yeild roughly the same result. I.E I say 1+1=2 and it took 20 seconds, You say 1+1=2 and it took 17 seconds, Person C says 1+1=2 and took 23 seconds but the cheater says 1+1=40 and took 20 seconds(or 1+1=2 and it took 300 seconds). When Our (all) results are returned the Validator compares the answers. With boinc it'll see the cheater answer with something outside that that we returned and declare his result "Invalid". If the cheater tries to cheat by time claims, then the validator will ignore the High and Low claimed credit. In this case 17 seconds low, and the cheaters 300 seconds high, and award all "Valid" results with the average of the other two (21.5 credits) to you, me and person C, since the cheater returned an Invalid result he gets squat.
>
> How is it that the site just went public yesterday and all these people have
> all these credits? Is that the cheating that you are mentioning? Something
> does not seem fair here.
>
I've been doing Einstein for a month. When Einstein started, the had an Idea. They recruited a hand ful of people to try out the Application and find bugs/make recommendations. When that seemed to be working, the Invited more to participate (roughly 1000), then when that seemed to work, they increased the number. I guess they feel things are close to right and they opened the project up to everyone.
does this help?
> so my credit is not
)
> so my credit is not determined only by my work and effort but also by the work of others?
This is true.
> I then makes no difference in how much computer work I do but by something of others.
This is not.
In principle, all here do (and need to do) the same work for the same result, so theoretically they should all claim the same credit for the same work. However, calculation of the credit is a difficult task if you want to be fair between architectures, and doesn't always work well, thus the differences in the claimed credit. We assign the median value of all claimed credits for a WU in order to be fair.
> That just does not seem right.
Still?
> How is it that the site just went public yesterday and all these people have all these credits?
Yesterday the site switched from testing to public phase. The credits you see here have been accumulated by our valuable beta testers during the testing phase. We decided to let them keep the credits as a bonus for their inconveniances (and somewhat unfairness) during the test.
BM
BM
> > > That just does not
)
>
> > That just does not seem right.
>
> Still?
>
> > How is it that the site just went public yesterday and all these people
> have all these credits?
>
> Yesterday the site switched from testing to public phase. The credits you see
> here have been accumulated by our valuable beta testers during the testing
> phase. We decided to let them keep the credits as a bonus for their
> inconveniances (and somewhat unfairness) during the test.
>
> BM
>
So the only way to "win" is if we were part of the inital inside select group - kind of like a pyramid scheme or ponzy scheme. It seems like running a race where some get a month head start. It just doen't seem fair. Even if the track needs to be tested, worked on and smoothed out, it just is not fair to let some get a month headstart. Why not just give them some kind of place of honor separate from the rest?
I don't mean to indicate the project is not great - I love the idea of helping research along. I would help even if I don't ever appear on some list of best 10,000 (I love relativity) - but it just doesn't seem fair to give some such an advantage over hundreds of WU's when the system is so concerned about fairness over single work units that I cannot get credit for a single WU I do until someone else does something (if they ever do).
Dennis, I have invested a
)
Dennis,
I have invested a bit of time trying to help you understand the current situation. I try to help people. A simple thanks would have sufficed.
If you look at my computers, you'll realize that I'm no threat to a "Credit race". We the alpha/beta testors have lost operating systems(and the hours of reconfiguration, reloading etc), I personally have had to replace a hard drive. I said we volunteered to help, and to accept the risks associated with it. You're right there are those here for the credits, but like BM said, we've EARNED the credit. If you'd volunteered and put your stuff at risk, you'd be keeping your credit too. I know you didn't sign up early or you'd have been here earlier. They invited everyone who requested a week ago.
I'm offended by your statement.
You will get your credits, it does take time. be patient.
tony
>>Dennis wrote: So the only
)
>>Dennis wrote: So the only way to "win" is if we were part of the inital inside select group
I don't think it is a matter of winning really. From my own point of view i am involved to help in the science.... The credits are a nice bonus to keep track of how much work you are doing but other than that they are not really worth anything.
I am one of the relatively small few who got in on this a bit before the site went public (I only got in a few weeks ago) and as you can see my credits are already over 1500. They build up quite quickly once you start crunching! Thing is, if you really want to 'win' this and have top credit, you will need some serious hardware. Take a look at the top participants of some of these projects. They have lots of high power machines claiming credit for them. Unless you have a better setup then you wont come close. Unfortunate, but true!
Perhaps you can join a team and contribute to pushing a team towards the top?
>>I cannot get credit for a single WU I do until someone else does something (if they ever do).
You will eventually get credit for your work. The other people crunching the same work as you will return them in time an you will get your Credit. It may not be exactly as you claimed but it tends to even out overall. Some times you will get less than you claimed. Sometimes more.
The delay can be a bit wierd to get used to but as you keep crunching you will find your credits start climbing regularly. In fact, the way things work, if you have lots of pending credit and turn off your machine for a few days, you will find that your granted credit will contine to climb even if you are not crunching!
anyhoo, happy crunching and welcome to BOINC!
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Who cares about "credits"
)
Who cares about "credits" anyway?
Are not "credits" meaningless? I mean they're not worth "cash and prizes" are they?
Come to think of it, most people seem to like to compete for any kind of award, so this might be great way to get more people/computers involved.
Interesting...
As a matter of fact, I don't
)
As a matter of fact, I don't know of any alph/beta testers who don't do work for other projects, and if it were about the Credit, then why would I or anyone else give up CPU cycles to Einstein, when we could be advancing our Seti, Protein Predictor, or CPDN positions. Can you answer that???
tony