Neutrino trigger could reveal gravitational waves

ML1
ML1
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Topic 194502

An interesting Physics News article:

Neutrino trigger could reveal gravitational waves

The physicists conclude that neutrino detection could be used to narrow down the arrival time of gravitation waves to an uncertainty of about 10 ms.

If so, that would greatly reduce the size of the 'haystack' for e@h to find the golden needle!

Keep searchin',
Martin

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Dan G.
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Neutrino trigger could reveal gravitational waves

Ha! If you read the comments for the article, some crackpot says he has detected gravitational waves since June 2008 using equipment he built for $300. Check out his site: http://www.16pi2.com

Donald A. Tevault
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RE: Ha! If you read the

Message 94563 in response to message 94562

Quote:

Ha! If you read the comments for the article, some crackpot says he has detected gravitational waves since June 2008 using equipment he built for $300. Check out his site: http://www.16pi2.com

I believe it. I mean, who can argue with a spreadsheet?

(Okay, I'll now go remove my tongue from my cheek.)

Mike Hewson
Mike Hewson
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RE: Ha! If you read the

Message 94564 in response to message 94562

Quote:
Ha! If you read the comments for the article, some crackpot says he has detected gravitational waves since June 2008 using equipment he built for $300. Check out his site: http://www.16pi2.com


This is what Richard Feynman would call 'cargo cult science'. It has the looks/form of science but without the content. This is a reference to the South Pacific cargo cults induced in the local islander populations by the airborne supply of troops in WWII. After the soldiers had moved on, they set up runways, huts and all sorts of airstrip related wood-based icons in the hope of luring an aeroplane to land. With all the good stuff on board. They even fashioned headphones and microphones, while doing their best to incant the radio chatter.

I don't mean factual content so much ( although that matters ), more that it lacks the rigor of self examination, external review and intellectual honesty. A researcher/theorist ought be the first and best discreditor/disprover of their work. As I've indicated elsewhere ( ad nauseum likely ) if you leave this type of test out then you ain't doing science.

I glanced at some of the linked papers. They are clearly eloquent exercises in language but are absolute drivel. Alas the general public ( & let's hope there are no investment cues ) won't know that his word usage/meanings are utterly unrelated to anyone else's. But that's the trick, of course. If I call an apple a banana, while showing you the apple then that's an immediate pick up. But if I obscure the ( semantic ) substitution one is likely to be none the wiser.

Cheers, Mike.

( edit ) Although I do see on their forum that someone knows how to rattle their cage. From the 'undecided questions' area - 'If the present might lead to multiple futures, why can't it also have emerged from multiple pasts?'. Nice one .... :-)

( edit ) As for the original thread paper, that's the first I've seen of such a narrow prediction of GW vs. neutrino timing for supernovae. And there is some interesting discussion from one the researchers on that web page too ..... a good example indeed of reflection upon one's own work.

I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter. Blaise Pascal

Bikeman (Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein)
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There's been a thread on this

There's been a thread on this forum some time ago about a supposed correlation between (generally accepted) neutrino detections and a (controversial) correlation with data of a room-temperature resonant mass GW detector at the time of the SN1987A super nova. So I guess everybody is anxiously awaiting the next "neighborhood" super nova, hoping at least one or two of the GW detectors are on duty during this event.

CU
Bikeman

Mike Hewson
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RE: There's been a thread

Message 94566 in response to message 94565

Quote:
There's been a thread on this forum some time ago about a supposed correlation between (generally accepted) neutrino detections and a (controversial) correlation with data of a room-temperature resonant mass GW detector at the time of the SN1987A super nova. So I guess everybody is anxiously awaiting the next "neighborhood" super nova, hoping at least one or two of the GW detectors are on duty during this event.


There was also another thread, I can't find it alas, discussing an excess signal in some of the frequency bins ( raw data ) from S4 I think. But as it was pointed out by one of the project scientists ( in the IFO logs ), it was not out of the behaviour bounds of usual fluctuations like laser shot noise. Plus what is considered 'excess' is also sensitive to the choice of width of the bins. Essentially : if you run a roulette wheel you will get clusters of numbers and there is no need to invoke any explanation of special bias. Machines like the LIGO IFO's are subject to all sorts of unrelated and thus asynchronous influences ...... it's not like the local noodle takeway shop where one takes a numbered ticket and waits in sequence.

Cheers, Mike.

I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter. Blaise Pascal

tullio
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I think that the Frascati

I think that the Frascati resonant mass detector connected with the 1987 supernova event was a cryogenic one. See papers number 185-190 in the Amaldi biography by Carlo Rubbia in LIGO/Scientific collaborations/Amaldi conference. Unfortunately, they are not online. There was no Internet then.
Tullio

Bikeman (Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein)
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RE: I think that the

Message 94568 in response to message 94567

Quote:
I think that the Frascati resonant mass detector connected with the 1987 supernova event was a cryogenic one. See papers number 185-190 in the Amaldi biography by Carlo Rubbia in LIGO/Scientific collaborations/Amaldi conference. Unfortunately, they are not online. There was no Internet then.
Tullio

Hi Tullio,

The paper linked in the quoted thread seems to indicate that it was a room-temperature detector involved, here are two quotes:

Quote:

At the time of the SN1987A the cryogenic resonant gravitational wave detec-
tors were not ready yet, still in the construction phase. However in Rome the
room-temperature resonant detector GEOGRAV, intended to detect signals
correlated with the Earth movements, was in operation.
....
....
In addition, also Joe Weber ([ca] 6000km away) had made observations with his room temperature detectors, and
these appeared to have some degree of correlation with GEOGRAV.
....

CU
Bikeman

tullio
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Not having access to the

Not having access to the papers I cannot confirm what I said. But a newspaper clipping I have speaks of a cryogenic antenna installed at CERN, but I don't know if it was working in 1987. Cheers.
Tullio
The Amaldi biography says that the cryogenic antenna operated for several months in 1986. But there is no mention about the 1987 event.

all4naija
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Gravitons(gravitation

Gravitons(gravitation particles), which is all encompassing in that field, I think should be the focus. Am yet to read the article.

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