What components do you 'repair'? Is it just fans or do you actually replace components like caps, etc?
I've replaced caps and transistors. I draw the line at reflowing solder. I've also got a board where a cap exploded and destroyed a square cm of board, I can't tell where the tracks were so I gave up on that and kept it for spares. And obviously the fans I replace. I don't bother repairing the fan controller, I just bypass it and run the fans full speed. But most often they just crash for no reason. I take them apart and replace all the heatsink gunk and pads, replacing them with better quality stuff. I use SYY thermal paste (15.7 W/mK) for the GPU, and whatever pads I can get cheap on Ebay (currently using some unbranded 16.8W/mK stuff I got huge sheets of really cheap) for the memory chips and other things where they use pads like the VRM. I tried the graphite based stuff once (it's over 50W/mK), but it conducts electricity so it's very difficult to stop it going over the edge of the chips and shorting things, so I gave up on that idea. It's sold for GDDR6 so comes precut too big for my old cards. And cutting it makes it fall apart and stuff ends up getting shorted.
Gary Roberts wrote:
I've successfully repaired the electrolytic caps on older style motherboards and PSUs where the failed component is rather obvious.
Same here, and in TVs. If in doubt, replace them all. I always replace with a better one. Change for low ESR if the old one isn't. Use a higher voltage one so you're not pushing it so hard. Avoid increasing the uF or it might affect the rest of the circuit with a bigger inrush current to charge it, but I've done that and never broken anything. I was going to replace a cap in a microwave someone gave me to fix, but they got a newer bigger one so I got to keep it. I took the 2000 volt transformer out, those things are fun. 2000 volts at 1kW. Jacob's ladders and stuff :-)
Gary Roberts wrote:
I have some older GPUs with polys that look OK but the GPU is starting to freeze from time to time and, whilst the machine itself hasn't crashed, it needs a cold reboot to get the GPU working again. Have you experienced anything like this?
Yes. Since I run all my GPUs off a big 12V rail powered by a few 1kW LED lighting supplies, I can power them down seperately (I just unclip the card from the rail with an alligator clip for a few seconds). If they do it regularly, I take them apart and regunk. It's amazing how much better they work with a regunk, even if they weren't overheating, I think the older tired ones work better when even cooler.
Gary Roberts wrote:
Replacing the TIM doesn't seem to improve things and the fans are fine so I don't think it's thermal. Swapping identical GPUs between machines shows that the problem goes with the GPU so I guess it's probably some component that has drifted out of spec. It's happened on about 4 cards of the same make and model (MSI HD7850) so it's probably the same component. I bought 34 of these back in 2013 so they certainly don't owe me anything :-). The fans have been rock solid - never had to replace one.
If you've used decent gunk, I guess all you can do is guess. Or do you have a scope? I got a cheap Arduino based one on Ebay for about £20-30. Runs off a 9V battery. You could see if there's excessive ripple on the caps. In fact a multimeter on AC voltage range would probably do. Otherwise just replace them all on one of the cards and see if that helps.
If this page takes an hour to load, reduce posts per page to 20 in your settings, then the tinpot 486 Einstein uses can handle it.
I always used low ESR Nichicons and usually upped the voltage rating a bit (6.3 -> 10, 10 -> 16, etc). I got given some old P4 Compaqs that had Rubycons on the MB so I started recovering those and using them instead. I purchased the boards I was repairing in 2008/2009 and most of them are still running OK. When something else on these dies, I just replace board/CPU/RAM with current stuff. It's just a platform to drive a GPU which does the work so the CPU speed doesn't really affect the crunch time.
The problem with GPUs locking up is relatively recent and the couple I've taken apart were put back with decent gunk. Whilst all machines live in a hot environment (room temperature in summer reaches 36C, or more), there is strong forced ventilation with external air (plus the ability to suspend crunching if needed) that keeps things in check. I've taken individual open machines with a problem GPU into a separate air-conditioned office (22C) and it has made no difference to the behaviour so likely not a temperature issue.
I don't have a scope (or any background in electronics in order to use it properly) so I had already started to ponder whether or not to just source replacement polymer caps and do a full exchange to see if that had any effect on the problem. There's quite a few caps to replace and my being old and unsteady of hand and eye wouldn't help either :-).
My gut feeling was that we are overdue for a full blown economic recession which might bring GPU prices back to more realistic levels. My best course of action might well be to not get into the repair rabbit hole but just keep rebooting as required for a while longer until I can research a suitable replacement for the ones that become too annoying. A batch of new gear is always quite nice to play with :-).
Of course, something that could take advantage of Petri's app would be of interest, as would more concrete evidence of how long FGRPB1G is likely to last. Since I share an internet connection with a business that has significant internet use of its own, I need to be mindful of how much bandwidth my machines use. The low data use and the ease of deploying new data files for FGRPB1G have made that a very attractive search to run.
One of my limitations is the inability to install CPUs safely on epyc motherboards.
So I have searching for epyc MB's with already installed CPU's.
eBay has a nice selection of ASRock single gpu combos. And there are some listings for dual cpu combos.
Are there any other places I should be searching?
Or what can you find?
Tom M
I too have 'issues' sometimes and have been able to find a local pc store that will do JUST what I ask them to do for a set cost, ie if I bring them the parts they make a working pc, if I only bring them a cpu they will ensure the MB has the right BIOS for the cpu I bring them and either they or I can install a heatsink depending on the spare time they have. They like to 'play' with things they build to get ideas for their business customers applications and LOVE to give me discounts if I will give them a 'few days' to put a pc together and then run it thru a few games etc to get some specs to show their customers, and then I pay less for letting them do it. I have no idea what's involved in Epyc cpu's and MB's but it could be an easy solution for you too. Their flat price to build a pc from parts, they will provide any needed screws etc but not coolers, drivers, gpu's etc for that price and they charge extra for any case fans etc that you want them to install, is $235 and that involves at least a 24 hour run time to test things to make sure it all works, when I took them my Nvidia 3060 and my AMD 5800 neither of which they'd never had before, they kept it for testing for an extra 24 hours and only charged me $175.
One of my limitations is the inability to install CPUs safely on epyc motherboards.
The CPU is easy, the heatsink is the difficult part. With the basic push in Intel ones, you're pushing very hard towards a fragile motherboard, then wondering if you turned the latch the right way first. With the more expensive screw in ones, a sharp hard screwdriver is being pushed towards a very scratchable motherboard. In the past I've:
Had the screwdriver slip and scratch the track between the CPU die and the edge of the CPU (this was back in Pentium days). A colleague with a 100% steady hand resoldered the track under a microscope and saved me £250!
More recently, a Zalman 6x6x6 inch cooler for my current Ryzen 9 3900XT, I tightened the screw a bit too much and busted the very fragile thread. They never gave a torque setting in the instructions! Not tight enough, poor contact for heat transfer, too tight, snap! I asked if they could send a replacement nut, but they refused. Stupid shop required me to return (at their expense) the whole thing, and they sent out another. What a waste of my time and their money.
If this page takes an hour to load, reduce posts per page to 20 in your settings, then the tinpot 486 Einstein uses can handle it.
Thank you Mikey. Another resource to search for. Local computer stores who would support me.
Got one here who once lent me a CD drive to install something. I only had a SCSI one and couldn't get it to work without drivers from the er.... CD. They overcharge for everything unless you barter. I used to buy a tonne of stuff from them for my work, since they were on the way home. Got 20 Iiyama Vision Master Pro 450 monitors (top of the range CRT back then with precise calibration so the image in the middle was the same width as the image at the edge, required for our research on photofit systems). They sold me loads at half price because they were "shop soiled" - a few unnoticeable scratches on the side. When I asked how many they had and wanted the lot, they drove them to me in a van!
If this page takes an hour to load, reduce posts per page to 20 in your settings, then the tinpot 486 Einstein uses can handle it.
I too have 'issues' sometimes and have been able to find a local pc store that will do JUST what I ask them to do for a set cost, ie if I bring them the parts they make a working pc, if I only bring them a cpu they will ensure the MB has the right BIOS for the cpu I bring them and either they or I can install a heatsink depending on the spare time they have.
It's no fun if someone else builds it for you!
If this page takes an hour to load, reduce posts per page to 20 in your settings, then the tinpot 486 Einstein uses can handle it.
Got 20 Iiyama Vision Master Pro 450 monitors (top of the range CRT back then with precise calibration so the image in the middle was the same width as the image at the edge, required for our research on photofit systems). They sold me loads at half price because they were "shop soiled" - a few unnoticeable scratches on the side. When I asked how many they had and wanted the lot, they drove them to me in a van!
I too have 'issues' sometimes and have been able to find a local pc store that will do JUST what I ask them to do for a set cost, ie if I bring them the parts they make a working pc, if I only bring them a cpu they will ensure the MB has the right BIOS for the cpu I bring them and either they or I can install a heatsink depending on the spare time they have.
It's no fun if someone else builds it for you!
I agree up to a point, I'm not as young as you are and have a tremor in my right, dominant, hand pills only mostly control so me doing intricate work is sometimes impossible, and why some things take much longer than they should these days, so me using some of my mad money to pay someone else to get me crunching with something new is worth it sometimes.
Gary Roberts wrote:What
)
I've replaced caps and transistors. I draw the line at reflowing solder. I've also got a board where a cap exploded and destroyed a square cm of board, I can't tell where the tracks were so I gave up on that and kept it for spares. And obviously the fans I replace. I don't bother repairing the fan controller, I just bypass it and run the fans full speed. But most often they just crash for no reason. I take them apart and replace all the heatsink gunk and pads, replacing them with better quality stuff. I use SYY thermal paste (15.7 W/mK) for the GPU, and whatever pads I can get cheap on Ebay (currently using some unbranded 16.8W/mK stuff I got huge sheets of really cheap) for the memory chips and other things where they use pads like the VRM. I tried the graphite based stuff once (it's over 50W/mK), but it conducts electricity so it's very difficult to stop it going over the edge of the chips and shorting things, so I gave up on that idea. It's sold for GDDR6 so comes precut too big for my old cards. And cutting it makes it fall apart and stuff ends up getting shorted.
Same here, and in TVs. If in doubt, replace them all. I always replace with a better one. Change for low ESR if the old one isn't. Use a higher voltage one so you're not pushing it so hard. Avoid increasing the uF or it might affect the rest of the circuit with a bigger inrush current to charge it, but I've done that and never broken anything. I was going to replace a cap in a microwave someone gave me to fix, but they got a newer bigger one so I got to keep it. I took the 2000 volt transformer out, those things are fun. 2000 volts at 1kW. Jacob's ladders and stuff :-)
Yes. Since I run all my GPUs off a big 12V rail powered by a few 1kW LED lighting supplies, I can power them down seperately (I just unclip the card from the rail with an alligator clip for a few seconds). If they do it regularly, I take them apart and regunk. It's amazing how much better they work with a regunk, even if they weren't overheating, I think the older tired ones work better when even cooler.
If you've used decent gunk, I guess all you can do is guess. Or do you have a scope? I got a cheap Arduino based one on Ebay for about £20-30. Runs off a 9V battery. You could see if there's excessive ripple on the caps. In fact a multimeter on AC voltage range would probably do. Otherwise just replace them all on one of the cards and see if that helps.
If this page takes an hour to load, reduce posts per page to 20 in your settings, then the tinpot 486 Einstein uses can handle it.
Thanks for the reply. I
)
Thanks for the reply.
I always used low ESR Nichicons and usually upped the voltage rating a bit (6.3 -> 10, 10 -> 16, etc). I got given some old P4 Compaqs that had Rubycons on the MB so I started recovering those and using them instead. I purchased the boards I was repairing in 2008/2009 and most of them are still running OK. When something else on these dies, I just replace board/CPU/RAM with current stuff. It's just a platform to drive a GPU which does the work so the CPU speed doesn't really affect the crunch time.
The problem with GPUs locking up is relatively recent and the couple I've taken apart were put back with decent gunk. Whilst all machines live in a hot environment (room temperature in summer reaches 36C, or more), there is strong forced ventilation with external air (plus the ability to suspend crunching if needed) that keeps things in check. I've taken individual open machines with a problem GPU into a separate air-conditioned office (22C) and it has made no difference to the behaviour so likely not a temperature issue.
I don't have a scope (or any background in electronics in order to use it properly) so I had already started to ponder whether or not to just source replacement polymer caps and do a full exchange to see if that had any effect on the problem. There's quite a few caps to replace and my being old and unsteady of hand and eye wouldn't help either :-).
My gut feeling was that we are overdue for a full blown economic recession which might bring GPU prices back to more realistic levels. My best course of action might well be to not get into the repair rabbit hole but just keep rebooting as required for a while longer until I can research a suitable replacement for the ones that become too annoying. A batch of new gear is always quite nice to play with :-).
Of course, something that could take advantage of Petri's app would be of interest, as would more concrete evidence of how long FGRPB1G is likely to last. Since I share an internet connection with a business that has significant internet use of its own, I need to be mindful of how much bandwidth my machines use. The low data use and the ease of deploying new data files for FGRPB1G have made that a very attractive search to run.
Cheers,
Gary.
One of my limitations is the
)
One of my limitations is the inability to install CPUs safely on epyc motherboards.
So I have searching for epyc MB's with already installed CPU's.
eBay has a nice selection of ASRock single gpu combos. And there are some listings for dual cpu combos.
Are there any other places I should be searching?
Or what can you find?
Tom M
A Proud member of the O.F.A. (Old Farts Association). Be well, do good work, and keep in touch.® (Garrison Keillor)
Tom M wrote: One of my
)
I too have 'issues' sometimes and have been able to find a local pc store that will do JUST what I ask them to do for a set cost, ie if I bring them the parts they make a working pc, if I only bring them a cpu they will ensure the MB has the right BIOS for the cpu I bring them and either they or I can install a heatsink depending on the spare time they have. They like to 'play' with things they build to get ideas for their business customers applications and LOVE to give me discounts if I will give them a 'few days' to put a pc together and then run it thru a few games etc to get some specs to show their customers, and then I pay less for letting them do it. I have no idea what's involved in Epyc cpu's and MB's but it could be an easy solution for you too. Their flat price to build a pc from parts, they will provide any needed screws etc but not coolers, drivers, gpu's etc for that price and they charge extra for any case fans etc that you want them to install, is $235 and that involves at least a 24 hour run time to test things to make sure it all works, when I took them my Nvidia 3060 and my AMD 5800 neither of which they'd never had before, they kept it for testing for an extra 24 hours and only charged me $175.
Thank you Mikey. Another
)
Thank you Mikey. Another resource to search for. Local computer stores who would support me.
A Proud member of the O.F.A. (Old Farts Association). Be well, do good work, and keep in touch.® (Garrison Keillor)
Tom M wrote:One of my
)
The CPU is easy, the heatsink is the difficult part. With the basic push in Intel ones, you're pushing very hard towards a fragile motherboard, then wondering if you turned the latch the right way first. With the more expensive screw in ones, a sharp hard screwdriver is being pushed towards a very scratchable motherboard. In the past I've:
Had the screwdriver slip and scratch the track between the CPU die and the edge of the CPU (this was back in Pentium days). A colleague with a 100% steady hand resoldered the track under a microscope and saved me £250!
More recently, a Zalman 6x6x6 inch cooler for my current Ryzen 9 3900XT, I tightened the screw a bit too much and busted the very fragile thread. They never gave a torque setting in the instructions! Not tight enough, poor contact for heat transfer, too tight, snap! I asked if they could send a replacement nut, but they refused. Stupid shop required me to return (at their expense) the whole thing, and they sent out another. What a waste of my time and their money.
If this page takes an hour to load, reduce posts per page to 20 in your settings, then the tinpot 486 Einstein uses can handle it.
Tom M wrote: Thank you
)
Got one here who once lent me a CD drive to install something. I only had a SCSI one and couldn't get it to work without drivers from the er.... CD. They overcharge for everything unless you barter. I used to buy a tonne of stuff from them for my work, since they were on the way home. Got 20 Iiyama Vision Master Pro 450 monitors (top of the range CRT back then with precise calibration so the image in the middle was the same width as the image at the edge, required for our research on photofit systems). They sold me loads at half price because they were "shop soiled" - a few unnoticeable scratches on the side. When I asked how many they had and wanted the lot, they drove them to me in a van!
If this page takes an hour to load, reduce posts per page to 20 in your settings, then the tinpot 486 Einstein uses can handle it.
mikey wrote:I too have
)
It's no fun if someone else builds it for you!
If this page takes an hour to load, reduce posts per page to 20 in your settings, then the tinpot 486 Einstein uses can handle it.
Peter Hucker wrote: Got 20
)
ROFL!!
Peter Hucker wrote: mikey
)
I agree up to a point, I'm not as young as you are and have a tremor in my right, dominant, hand pills only mostly control so me doing intricate work is sometimes impossible, and why some things take much longer than they should these days, so me using some of my mad money to pay someone else to get me crunching with something new is worth it sometimes.