I'm perplexed - My E@H total credits go up, but my average credits go down

George
George
Joined: 8 Jan 18
Posts: 174
Credit: 108,447,364
RAC: 542,471
Topic 223960

On my 3950X I've been noticing for some time now that my average credits are going down while my total credits are going up.  Can anyone give me an explanation?

As I said in the title, I'm perplexed.

George

Harri Liljeroos
Harri Liljeroos
Joined: 10 Dec 05
Posts: 708
Credit: 931,296,591
RAC: 1,713,427

If your daily credit has been

If your daily credit has been lower than your RAC then the RAC will go down. Take a look at your stats on the BoincStats site and you'll see how it has been going for you: https://www.boincstats.com/stats/5/user/detail/983881/charts You had some good days on 2020-11-01 ... 2020-11-03 over 300000/day and gradually it became lower until 2020-11-11 it was below 200000/day, so drop in RAC was bound to happen.

George
George
Joined: 8 Jan 18
Posts: 174
Credit: 108,447,364
RAC: 542,471

Harri Liljeroos wrote: If

Harri Liljeroos wrote:

If your daily credit has been lower than your RAC then the RAC will go down. Take a look at your stats on the BoincStats site and you'll see how it has been going for you: https://www.boincstats.com/stats/5/user/detail/983881/charts You had some good days on 2020-11-01 ... 2020-11-03 over 300000/day and gradually it became lower until 2020-11-11 it was below 200000/day, so drop in RAC was bound to happen.

Thank you Harri for responding so quickly.  I just never thought of looking at it that way.

How many days does E@H (and other projects) use to average our credit?  A week?  A month?

George

mikey
mikey
Joined: 22 Jan 05
Posts: 6,744
Credit: 611,721,057
RAC: 60,030

George wrote: Harri

George wrote:

Harri Liljeroos wrote:

If your daily credit has been lower than your RAC then the RAC will go down. Take a look at your stats on the BoincStats site and you'll see how it has been going for you: https://www.boincstats.com/stats/5/user/detail/983881/charts You had some good days on 2020-11-01 ... 2020-11-03 over 300000/day and gradually it became lower until 2020-11-11 it was below 200000/day, so drop in RAC was bound to happen.

Thank you Harri for responding so quickly.  I just never thought of looking at it that way.

How many days does E@H (and other projects) use to average our credit?  A week?  A month? 

Short answer none...long answer projects don't do what you are talking about. When your RAC, Recent Average Credit, goes down it means that over time you are doing less work now than you used to do. That could be because each workunit takes longer to crunch and yet they still give the same credits per task then your RAC will go down. Also older computers slow down over time, not much but over years you can see the difference. RAC is a coimplicated formula that essentially says last months credits count less than this months credits and last weeks credits count less than this weeks credits and yesterdays credits count less than todays credits.

Each Project provides a data file on their website that all the stats sites download, some Projects provide that multiple times per day while others only do it once per day. The stats sites then show those credits on their sites without us having to go to each Project to see them. The stats sites then parse the data to show the weekly and monthly numbers but they are not showing our RAC, they just divide the data they have gotten by 7 for a weekly average and I'm guessing 30 days to come up with the monthly average.

George
George
Joined: 8 Jan 18
Posts: 174
Credit: 108,447,364
RAC: 542,471

mikey wrote: George

mikey wrote:

George wrote:

Harri Liljeroos wrote:

If your daily credit has been lower than your RAC then the RAC will go down. Take a look at your stats on the BoincStats site and you'll see how it has been going for you: https://www.boincstats.com/stats/5/user/detail/983881/charts You had some good days on 2020-11-01 ... 2020-11-03 over 300000/day and gradually it became lower until 2020-11-11 it was below 200000/day, so drop in RAC was bound to happen.

Thank you Harri for responding so quickly.  I just never thought of looking at it that way.

How many days does E@H (and other projects) use to average our credit?  A week?  A month? 

Short answer none...long answer projects don't do what you are talking about. When your RAC, Recent Average Credit, goes down it means that over time you are doing less work now than you used to do. That could be because each workunit takes longer to crunch and yet they still give the same credits per task then your RAC will go down. Also older computers slow down over time, not much but over years you can see the difference. RAC is a coimplicated formula that essentially says last months credits count less than this months credits and last weeks credits count less than this weeks credits and yesterdays credits count less than todays credits.

Each Project provides a data file on their website that all the stats sites download, some Projects provide that multiple times per day while others only do it once per day. The stats sites then show those credits on their sites without us having to go to each Project to see them. The stats sites then parse the data to show the weekly and monthly numbers but they are not showing our RAC, they just divide the data they have gotten by 7 for a weekly average and I'm guessing 30 days to come up with the monthly average.

Thank you Mikey,

Your explanation makes a bit more sense to me.  I do understand now.

Aside from this, how is everything else?  I presume you and your wife are staying safe from the Corona virus?

George

Gary Roberts
Gary Roberts
Moderator
Joined: 9 Feb 05
Posts: 5,356
Credit: 48,964,898,118
RAC: 61,008,237

George wrote:On my 3950X

George wrote:

On my 3950X I've been noticing for some time now that my average credits are going down while my total credits are going up.  Can anyone give me an explanation?

If you want to know the gory details about something, a search engine is your friend.  A quick google for "How BOINC RAC is calculated" gives a plethora of hits.  Interestingly, one that was quite near the top of the list was this thread right here at Einstein.

The thread starts out in a light-hearted vein and does contain some frivolous/misleading "information" but later on there is quite detailed and useful discussion by the people who have done the research - like Richard Haselgrove, Stan Pope and archae86 for example.  Richard is an IBT (International BOINC Treasure) :-).  What he doesn't know about BOINC is probably not worth knowing.

Personally, I pay little attention to RAC, particularly on the short term.  I set the <save_stats_days> option in cc_config.xml to 100.  The default is 30 and that's too short to properly see the trends.  If I have any concerns about a particular host, I use the statistics tab in BOINC Manager to eyeball the full RAC graph.  I expect to see lots of ups and downs so those fluctuations don't bother me.  If I see longer term trends lasting a few 10's of days or more, I will investigate further.

Cheers,
Gary.

George
George
Joined: 8 Jan 18
Posts: 174
Credit: 108,447,364
RAC: 542,471

Gary Roberts wrote: If you

Gary Roberts wrote:

If you want to know the gory details about something, a search engine is your friend.  A quick google for "How BOINC RAC is calculated" gives a plethora of hits.  Interestingly, one that was quite near the top of the list was this thread right here at Einstein.

The thread starts out in a light-hearted vein and does contain some frivolous/misleading "information" but later on there is quite detailed and useful discussion by the people who have done the research - like Richard Haselgrove, Stan Pope and archae86 for example.  Richard is an IBT (International BOINC Treasure) :-).  What he doesn't know about BOINC is probably not worth knowing.

Personally, I pay little attention to RAC, particularly on the short term.  I set the <save_stat_days> option in cc_config.xml to 100.  The default is 30 and that's too short to properly see the trends.  If I have any concerns about a particular host, I use the statistics tab in BOINC Manager to eyeball the full RAC graph.  I expect to see lots of ups and downs so those fluctuations don't bother me.  If I see longer term trends lasting a few 10's of days or more, I will investigate further.

Hi Gary, thanks for responding into this post.

FYI: I consider you among those you mentioned that are so knowledgeable about the topic, too.  At least I read every post of yours I see in the forums, among others.  Richard Haselgrove is another that I respect and read, and lately Archea86 too.  I did check on Stan Pope, both in google and in BOINC.  It seems his last BOINC computer contact was in mid-April of 2018.  Has he finally retired, or worse?  I don't remember seeing any posts of his, though I haven't been searching past archives.

I don't really pay much attention to RAC either, but I did notice a change that I was curious about so I asked.  I do like your comment on setting RAC to <save_stat_days> option in cc_config.xml to 100.  That does make much more sense.  I will pay more attention to it with the changes in the future.

George

Gary Roberts
Gary Roberts
Moderator
Joined: 9 Feb 05
Posts: 5,356
Credit: 48,964,898,118
RAC: 61,008,237

George wrote:...  I did check

George wrote:
...  I did check on Stan Pope, both in google and in BOINC.  It seems his last BOINC computer contact was in mid-April of 2018.  Has he finally retired, or worse?

You will notice that Stan joined in 2005 so he had a lot of years contributing to this project.  Like many of us here, I'm guessing that he was well retired at that time and dedicated to 'giving back' to science in those areas of interest to him.  Those sorts of people tend to keep contributing while they are able.

In the early days, I remember him as a knowledgeable and passionate contributor who was really keen to understand how things worked 'under the hood'.  You can sense that by his reaction when he finally got hold of the full formula by which RAC is calculated.  I certainly don't know for sure, but I suspect that the "or worse" may be the true reason why he hasn't posted more recently.

BTW, you must have responded to my post immediately after I made it.  I did what I always do - reread the whole thing immediately after posting just to finally check for any typos.  I noticed the missing 's' on 'stats' so I corrected it immediately - but obviously not quickly enough since you have snagged the uncorrected version.  Just in case anyone tries to use that cc_config.xml option, it should be <save_stats_days>.  Anyway, it's always good to check the full documentation if planning to implement any of the available options.

Cheers,
Gary.

George
George
Joined: 8 Jan 18
Posts: 174
Credit: 108,447,364
RAC: 542,471

Gary Roberts wrote: BTW, you

Gary Roberts wrote:

BTW, you must have responded to my post immediately after I made it.  I did what I always do - reread the whole thing immediately after posting just to finally check for any typos.  I noticed the missing 's' on 'stats' so I corrected it immediately - but obviously not quickly enough since you have snagged the uncorrected version.  Just in case anyone tries to use that cc_config.xml option, it should be <save_stats_days>.  Anyway, it's always good to check the full documentation if planning to implement any of the available options.

:*)  I did snag your post shortly after you posted it.  I usually re-read my posts also by hitting the preview tab before actually posting it.  And thanks for correcting your typo, I haven't made changes yet to my cc_config.xml file.

Also, after reading the posts put up by Stan Pope I can only hope that he is resting comfortably, wherever he is and whatever he is doing.

Gary, it is always a pleasure to hear from you and chat a bit.

George

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