Black Holes Shown to Act Like Quantum Particles

astro-marwil
astro-marwil
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Topic 227600

Hallo!

Massive Black Holes Shown to Act Like Quantum Particles

Physicists are using quantum math to understand what happens when black holes collide. In a surprise, they’ve shown that a single particle can describe a collision’s entire gravitational wave.

 

I´m no theoretical physicist, but, does this show up some relations between QM and GRT? In best case is this a way to unify QM and GRT?

To confirm this experimentally, it´s neccessary to measure GWs at high frequencys. But high fequencys require short arm legths. But sensitivity ist proportional to arm lenght. To compensat for this, we need much, much more GW-detectors with short arm length.

I´m somewhat wondering, that this paper didn´t took more attention by the public.

Kind regards and happy crunching.

Martin

 

 

 

mikey
mikey
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astro-marwil

astro-marwil wrote:

Hallo!

Massive Black Holes Shown to Act Like Quantum Particles

Physicists are using quantum math to understand what happens when black holes collide. In a surprise, they’ve shown that a single particle can describe a collision’s entire gravitational wave.

 

I´m no theoretical physicist, but, does this show up some relations between QM and GRT? In best case is this a way to unify QM and GRT?

To confirm this experimentally, it´s neccessary to measure GWs at high frequencys. But high fequencys require short arm legths. But sensitivity ist proportional to arm lenght. To compensat for this, we need much, much more GW-detectors with short arm length.

Martin

Make them easy to install and use and then pay people to have them and much like power lines in the US that run thru farmland people will put them up everywhere!!

My Uncle used to convince farmers to put up power poles on their land and then the power company would pay them for the privilege, most farmers said yes but a few said no and that's why some lines go straight as an arrow for miles then make a jog off to one side or the other than go back to the straight line again. I'm aren't talking about standard hook up to your home power lines these are the main HUGE transmission lines that carry power from the power generation plant to the smaller distribution places or even big cities. These are also the ones you can actually stand inside with a fluorescent light tube and it will glow just from the static electricity.

Mike Hewson
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In short I think this will

In short I think this will turn out to be a pivotal finding for melding quantum theory with GR. Quite exciting and possibly prize winning work !

In long They are discussing the use of quantum field theory methods - calculations illustrated by Feynman diagrams - which have some surprising results, that being the 'quantum' terms vanishing and only a 'classical' ( no Planck's constant ) terms remaining. But this is not arbitrary, indeed it 'falls out' of the analysis :

"The researchers had stumbled upon an unexpected pattern in the amplitude haystack. It showed that they didn’t need an infinite number of amplitudes to study classical waves. Instead, they could stop at the five-point amplitude — which involves only a single particle of radiation."

"The expectation is that quantum field theory does describe classical physics ........ It turns out that it is in this way that it does it, by having zero uncertainty in some states." 

If this bears scrutiny then it would solve a long standing dilemma ie. can QM and GR be applied simultaneously ?

Cheers, Mike.

( edit ) BTW you can have zero uncertainty for some quantity in a QM state, provided that the 'conjugate variable' for that quantity has maximum/infinite uncertainty. Thus Heisenberg's Principle is preserved. Naturally whether such states actually exist is a matter of measurement to validate ( or not ).

( edit ) On reflection, something akin to this must be true ie. there is some scale/range at which both QM ( in the micro ) and GR ( in the macro ) agree. There is a mathematical subtlety here though. This process of combining amplitudes to some arbitrary degree of 'finesse', I'm guessing, is going to rely on the grouping of terms in a series. In theory this is an infinite series, and historically there has been much discussion about whether one can legitimately re-arrange the order of terms within. For finite sums we are used to the order of addition not mattering much - your grocery bill will add up to the same total regardless of the sequence of operations - provided you neither miss nor multiply count anything. However an infinite sum is strictly a limit approached by successively 'closer' finite sums. There's the rub though : is the convergence of said series affected by term grouping, and if so then do the limits agree anyhow ? So I reckon they have done some term grouping that causes some given order and all higher terms to mutually cancel, leaving a relatively small ( ie. finite ) handful that matter. Watch this space ..... ;-)

( edit ) If I read this correctly, it ought also say something about the centre of a black hole. Maybe it's not an infinitely dense singularity after all : very massive & very dense to be sure, but finitely so.

( late edit ) Second thought : If not cancelling terms, then another way to be rid of quantum terms is to let Planck's constant tend to zero in the relevant expressions ..... yielding the limiting case of the classical world with no uncertainty principle. Yeah ... probably and/or that.

I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...

... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal

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