Superluminal Light Propagation, Higgs, Graviton Rings, etc.

gravitonring
gravitonring
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true, we are in a thought

Message 48469 in response to message 48468


true, we are in a thought experiment for now :) but it took 70 years for the Bose Einstein condensate to appear!
it begs my question though, am i my body, or my awareness of my body, from the point of view of me as infinite?
understanding infinity by the BBC, the point is speculated that infinity is not only in size but in frequency...
so if an infinite set of events happens 'everywhere' then there is no need for information to travel anywhere...
if my awareness is from the infinite me or a collective infinite we, then we do not need to interpret anything!

also the speed of the teleport may not be the focus of desired inevitability of reifying it, just to teleport...
teleportation at any speed is still amazing, and if it is teleporting as a 'thing', speed would be secondary...
to keep the matter intact, or to bring the matter with the wave would be inevitable because they are the same...

i think :)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/documentary_archive/5349064.stm
http://odeo.com/audio/1931231/view

everything is true, the opposite of everything is also true

gravitysmith
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[aargh! I type too

Message 48470 in response to message 48468

[aargh! I type too slow...Here's the post I meant to write before]

Quote:
I have a very sceptical view on teleportation experiments - do they claim to teleport instantiniously or at speed of light ? Does entangelment collapse instantiniously or at speed of light ? Looks like the entangelment is actually some sort of premaking space-time to behave in certain way and it is not capable of transmitting information (here i mean any arbitrary chosen signals) faster than light


For the short answers to your questions: 1)Yes. 2)It actually could be any speed. 3)You are are correct.

Teleportation (and collapsing of quantum entanglement) can be essentially instantaneous! Unlike the courteous information that always obeys the speed (of light) limit, teleportation does not have to, because by itself it can not convey information.

As you mention, teleportation requires the pre-making of some quantum object. Consider two people: Alice and Bob. One day they are hanging out in the Einstein Cafe and create a pair of quantum particles with unique properties. If one particle is pointed "up" then the other will always be point "up" as well. If one is "down", the other will always be "down" with 100% probability. The quantum trick is that before measuring the particles they are simultaneously up and down so measuring either one will give a 50% probability of getting a specific result. Of course once one is measured the other can be instantly determined since we know about the correlation between the particles even if we don't know anything about a specific particle. This type of "quantum entanglement" I describe is very counter-intuitive, and I don't know what to say other than it has been shown to exist in experiments. If I continue with the story however, perhaps I can convince you that no information is transmitted in the process of this instantaneous determination.

So after having a couple of drinks at the bar, Alice and Bob part ways and head for opposite ends of the galaxy. Quite some time later (on a pre-determined schedule), Alice measures her particle. At that exact instant, Bob's particle is also determined by the quantum mechanical laws I stated earlier. Unfortunately Bob has no way of knowing what Alice's result is. As far as Bob is concerned, the particle could still be up or down with equal chance, although the uncertainty now rests on classical ignorance instead of any quantum property. Alice knows what the result is, but it would take a regular message sent at the speed of light before she could communicate that information to Bob.

The real key to this system that prohibits faster-than-light communication is the inability of Bob or Alice to measure their particle without affecting it. The same strange rules that allow one to create correlated (entangled) particles prevent us from measuring a particle without disturbing it. Until he receive's Alice's message, the outcome of Bob's measurement will appear random to him, and thus convey no information. He will know his result is the same as Alice's, but because the result of her measurement was random, no information can be communicated. For the outcome to contain any information at all, Bob has to wait for that speed-of-light message to reach him.

As a side note, I mentioned at the beginning that the collapse of entanglement can be at any speed. A fascinating area of research in quantum mechanics revolves around a "weak measurement" where we only get partial information about a quantum object. The result is that the state of the object only partially collapses. In fact, you can think about any quantum measurement as a continuous process of gaining information. The more information gained about the quantum state, the more we have forced the quantum object to take a specific value. So the collapse of entanglement you talk about can actually be at any speed. The "instantaneous" ones tend to have the most dramatic results though.

smith

gravitonring
gravitonring
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mass assumption if mass

Message 48471 in response to message 48470

mass assumption

if mass has a Higgs thingy or some gluon that collects like static lint to the particle, then maybe we are defining the particle in error...

suppose LHC says we have a mass endowing piece of very tiny lint...

its anti lint equivalent could shut off the mass accumulation!

so if the particle [info or matter] does not accumulate mass...

well you get the picture :)

everything is true, the opposite of everything is also true

Mike Hewson
Mike Hewson
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RE: so i am sure this

Message 48472 in response to message 48466

Quote:

so i am sure this article at CNN is poorly understood too :)
but it does claim to have some very new cryptic ways to send...

http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/10/04/teleportation.reut/index.html
Scientists teleport two different objects, POSTED: 7:13 a.m. EDT, October 5, 2006

Quote:


...Professor Eugene Polzik and his team at the Niels Bohr Institute at Copenhagen University in Denmark have made a breakthrough by using both light and matter.

"It is one step further because for the first time it involves teleportation between light and matter, two different objects. One is the carrier of information and the other one is the storage medium," Polzik explained in an interview on Wednesday.

The experiment involved for the first time a macroscopic atomic object containing thousands of billions of atoms. They also teleported the information a distance of half a meter but believe it can be extended further.



I 'teleport' information every day ..... using my fax machine.
I involve a macroscopic atomic object containing alot more than thousands of billions of atoms ..... my secretary.
( I use the local phone lines as a waveguide and paper as a storage medium )

Quote:
Although teleportation is associated with the science-fiction series "Star Trek," no one is likely to be beamed anywhere soon.

Oddly - and this might be a difficult concept for CNN - this is simply because the topics have nothing to do with each other ( except that someone chose to label them with the same word ). Note to CNN: StarTrek is a fiction franchise, while the Danish guys are optics researchers.

They have used light to coherently communicate using entanglement properties of said photon's ( which are produced by the process that spawns them ). The important factor is that one can detect eavesdropping - because essentially a 'copy' is kept using the other photon, and quantum mechanics puts a lower limit on any level of disturbance used to read it. There is no 'action at a distance', or 'superluminal' transfer, or 'non-locality' at all - because the whole bloody arrangement is preset by methods using boring sub-light stuff ( and is meaningless without such preparation ). You can always run the 100m in as fast a time as you like, by starting the stop-watch late - for instance after the first 95m have already been run....

Entanglement is not always quantum mechanical - you can do it clasically too - even in your own home. Let's say Bob and Alice ( the eternally entangled communication duo ) agree to always gainsay each other - Bob says YES when Alice says NO, and vice versa. Then when Bob sends Alice a Birthday card proposing/alleging some truth, Bob knows Alice will disagree. There may be some excitement perhaps in awaiting the opening of the envelope. But when done, one will 'instantaneously' know where the other stands. Spooky ...... :-)

Hint: the sublight bit happened whenever they agreed to gainsay .... or possibly when they compared notes later to see if each kept to their gainsaying bargain.

Cheers, Mike.

I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter. Blaise Pascal

gravitonring
gravitonring
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Texas [aka Chile], Kansas,

Message 48473 in response to message 48472

Texas [aka Chile], Kansas, and the REAL Land of OZ:

there are some George's from Texas with a scientific bent :)

http://space.com/scienceastronomy/largest_telescope_040805.html

http://www.astrolandofoz.com/

http://www.aao.gov.au/

will the Giant Magellan Telescope help the Einstein at Home Project to find stuff?

everything is true, the opposite of everything is also true

gravitonring
gravitonring
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‮ my actual point of

‮ my actual point of view

anybody else out there ever ACTUALLY seen the mirror image world of the future?

seriously i drew a mirror image one month before an unpredictable event:

after using: future memory development technique by creator James Van Avery

this message trick was from Google's orkut

everything is true, the opposite of everything is also true

gravitonring
gravitonring
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oops the trick

Message 48475 in response to message 48474

oops the trick disappeared!

i will try again here:

post this as the first line in any submit box, enter, you may have to quote to see the reverse text:

‮ my actual point of view

everything is true, the opposite of everything is also true

gravitonring
gravitonring
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NOTE: This site is NOT about

Message 48476 in response to message 48475

NOTE:
This site is NOT about text reversal, it is an ACTUAL see the future technique!
the technique required several days of practice for me to 'see' the future :)
future memory development technique by creator James Van Avery
http://www.cinemind.com/atwater/future.html

everything is true, the opposite of everything is also true

gravitonring
gravitonring
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my conclusions after 'seeing'

Message 48477 in response to message 48476

my conclusions after 'seeing' the future:
there is no such thing as seeing the future, but there is a 'true view'
our so called future, as humans, is actually the past in the true view;
sorry but you cannot win the lottery using Avery's future technique :)
the human brain is SO SLOW at seeing the true view that it's PATHETIC...
the human brain is BILLIONS of years behind the 'true view' night sky;
the human brain is several weeks behind what's happening in earth time;
the human brain may be MANY YEARS behind the true view of earth events;

conclusion: time, if defined as past or future, is an illusion of the human brain;

to quote myself :)

Quote:
i think there is a great difference between our organic brain, and our infinite
mind, roughly speaking the difference between hardware and software...but much
more than that functional analogy, we seem to have an infinite mind, but a very
finite and vulnerable brain...

everything is true, the opposite of everything is also true

gravitonring
gravitonring
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after looking at the page, i

Message 48478 in response to message 48476

after looking at the page, i realize that there is only one portion dedicated to Avery's technique, quoted there, sorry, i was not able to understand much else, nor to experience any other of the book's topics, however i did spend several days on each step of Avery's technique...the book, which details many of Avery's own experiences with the method, is probably in any major library, but i do not know if Avery published anything himself...

to sum up my experience with Avery's ideas: the human MIND is nonlocal and experiences 'real' time...

however, after 'seeing' about one month ahead, I QUIT DOING IT for several YEARS now, it is WAY too scary for me :))

missing in the web page are detailed descriptions of the technique, with MANY methods of recording your individual experiences...

sorry, i did not keep any of my written work...the two things i remember are drawings, one of a page in a magazine that i had never seen, drawn as 'seen' before looking into the pages of the magazine, and the other a mirror image of an internet conference that happened about one month after i drew the image...the image itself appeared for a few seconds just as the conference started...i recognized the drawing's POV as soon as i sat down in the front row, but several key elements were missing, then, just as the conference started, two women entered the room and placed their chairs in exactly the positions that i had drawn, one month earlier...

Quote:
NOTE:
This site is NOT about text reversal, it is an ACTUAL see the future technique!
the technique required several days of practice for me to 'see' the future :)
future memory development technique by creator James Van Avery
http://www.cinemind.com/atwater/future.html

Quote:


a future memory development technique through its creator James Van Avery, an electronics design specialist for a Seattle, Washington aerospace company.

Avery created the following exercises after a decade of experimentation and apparently successful replication by others with future memory experiences:

Improve memory exercise . During a quiet time gaze upon a scene, close your eyes and start visualizing it. Repeat this exercise until you can automatically recall the smallest of details with many scenes throughout the day.

Use imagination . Visualize what things may look like behind other objects in order to build confidence in your hunches.

Focus the mind . Know how you keep track of information and avoid details that clutter your thought processes.

Keep records . Your progress will be recorded for positive feedback to guide future performance and build confidence.

Seek patterns and shapes . Never anticipate what an object or scene will be. Rather, trust your imagination to describe what something looks like . Look for shapes and forms of light and dark. Images are usually black & white and contrast is important.

Identify details . Coincidences appear to happen more frequently during future memory exercises. This is often due to an inability to control and identify real, accurate details. Don't dwell on any one detail. Keep moving and piece details later.

Future memory .When advancing to a future event, visualize yourself further ahead than the target time. Then use your memory to remember back to the time you wish to observe. While imagining your position in a room that you can enter in the near future, picture the furniture and look for details. Now go to the room and check for results. Give yourself a score and keep all records.

Transformation. Believe that what you are doing is real, actually happening and can be controlled. It shall be so.

Problems and Solutions . Emotional experiences may have opened the door to future memory episodes and should be engaged to maintain interest. However, don't let wrong results discourage your progress. There is no need for rituals or magic, just accurate and honest documentation, then careful examination of the results to steer the learning process in the right direction.

everything is true, the opposite of everything is also true

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