Lots of great info here guys! Yea, I know a fair bit about house wiring and am familiar with the 80% rule (aka never exceed 80% of a circuits rated load).
I wish I was as lucky as you to have 230 from the wall, increasing voltage decreases amps, but doesn't save you power. it does however, almost always mean you can put more on a circuit because there is more wattage available to split between devices.
I will be building a dual 2670 with dual (I'll say dual for now) 1060 or 1070 early next year. I'm still crunching the numbers on what would be the best value for me, aka less concerned about initial cost, more concerned about credit/watt and output.
I live in northwestern Wisconsin, it can get to ~30c (90's f for you anti SI) during late July through mid August, however September-June it pretty much stays below 15c. Right now Oct 26, its 5c outside. I have to heat my home with Propane, however, Electricity is somewhat cheaper than Propane here, so the heat is less of an issue. What I may be surprised by is how much more heat comes out of the new systems compared to my current systems... After all, 4 out of 5 of my current systems are CPU only and barely produce enough credit to make it worth powering them.
So I started looking at UPS systems, do I need to find out actual power consumption before calculating UPS size? according to the info I have gleaned, you want the UPS VA rating to be around 140% of system wattage due to the conversion between Watts and VA. With the online watt calculators (I Know, I'm buying a Kill-A-Watt soon) that would mean each system would need its own 1400va UPS. that is clearly excessive, as 3000va is claimed to run an entire rack of servers.
It's fascinating to try and use computers for something other than gaming or low level server use (aka minecraft server) and find any useful information. Every time I try to look into high power computing or multi GPU systems I run into endless people telling me to virtualize, or that more than 2 GPU is a waste because it doesn't scale. It can get frustrating.
The 1400VA UPS sounds about right for a server CPU and dual 1070's. I'm using a APC BackUPS 1500 for my crunchers with FX-8350/70's and dual 1070's. The UPS says loading is around 60-65% or about 480-540 watts. That gives me about 9 minutes of runtime before the UPS shuts itself down after a power outage.
I will be building a dual 2670 with dual (I'll say dual for now) 1060 or 1070 early next year. I'm still crunching the numbers on what would be the best value for me, aka less concerned about initial cost, more concerned about credit/watt and output.
I can't + enough the the "buy an efficient PSU" (and run it in the sweet spot ~40-80%), do the calcs the efficiency savings alone will pay for itself. My rough rule of thumb is 1 watt is 1 pound per year.
Also the efficiency reduces heat in the case, and so the room, so less cooling and less thermal stress on components and occupants!
Dual CPU motherboards, hmmm, are hard to come by (certainly in ATX size), i built one mainly to do CPU tasks, and because ebay was basically giving away 2660s for 60USD it became financially (sort of) feasible. Whilst i liked building it, it's not ideal for multiple GPUs the 8 DIMMS memory (to resolve memory bottlenecks) and dual coolers eat up to much case space. I have an idle HD 7990 furnace which may go in for winter or if the GW tasks go GPU.
You will also need an addition 8pin feed for the second CPU, make certain you have that not all PSUs have it.
With the online watt calculators (I Know, I'm buying a Kill-A-Watt soon) that would mean each system would need its own 1400va UPS. that is clearly excessive, as 3000va is claimed to run an entire rack of servers
Sizing UPS is sticky, and depends on what you want it to do for you, and whether you hope it will still do it when the batteries have some months on them.
Hoping to stick a big number label on the machine, they commonly put in such tiny batteries relative to the power components that the UPS may only deliver rated output for five minutes when the batteries are fresh. As the type of batteries used (lead-acid gel cells, generally) combined with the charging and usage environment means the batteries fairly rapidly lose gusto, a "just barely adequate" UPS on day zero may not carry full fault load for even 5 seconds a few months later.
If you actually want to have enough battery to run for long enough to give you time for a graceful shut-down (think waking in the middle of the night to a chorus of beeps from multiple UPS units, then dashing about first diagnosing and then doing shut-downs) and if you don't succeed in getting some scheme for the UPS to inform the host system it is running on battery, with the host system then shutting down your Einstein work, then you need far more battery capacity than if you just want to ride out the occasional 5-second bump, especially if you do get the automatic power reduction to work.
I urge you to pay attention to battery capacity, and not just claimed VA rating. You may find it helpful to look up what the replacement batteries are for the unit, as the vendor may not actually tell you what is in the box.
I bought quite a few APC units over the years, but they fell out of my favor about a decade ago and I've used CyberPower since. I don't know whether that is a wise choice currently.
I urge you to pay attention to battery capacity, and not just claimed VA rating. You may find it helpful to look up what the replacement batteries are for the unit, as the vendor may not actually tell you what is in the box.
I have looked a couple of times at UPS - the power supply here is - touch wood very good, perhaps one or two outages per year.
When i did look - i could not work out how efficient they were, meaning under normal running, mains powered, what wattage (if any) do they use?
I wish I was as lucky as you to have 230 from the wall, increasing voltage decreases amps, but doesn't save you power.
Modern PC power supplies will run a couple of percent more efficient on 230V compared to 115V. Take a look at the power efficiency curves for the Corsair CX600 power supply (under Tech Specs).
I will be building a dual 2670 with dual (I'll say dual for now) 1060 or 1070 early next year. I'm still crunching the numbers on what would be the best value for me, aka less concerned about initial cost, more concerned about credit/watt and output.
Just comparing the cards by themselves, the GTX1060 is a better value than the GTX1070. However, when the cost of the infrastructure to provide a PCI-E slot is taken into consideration, a GTX1070 system is a better value. I have a dual GTX1070 setup dedicated to E@H and am happy with my GPU decision. However, I think you might be happier with a high end i5 instead of a dual 2670 setup. I no longer do any CPU crunching on machines with GPUs, so that probably colors my judgement.
Just comparing the cards by themselves, the GTX1060 is a better value than the GTX1070. However, when the cost of the infrastructure to provide a PCI-E slot is taken into consideration, a GTX1070 system is a better value. I have a dual GTX1070 setup dedicated to E@H and am happy with my GPU decision. However, I think you might be happier with a high end i5 instead of a dual 2670 setup. I no longer do any CPU crunching on machines with GPUs, so that probably colors my judgement.
I run a slower setup now with 750tis, and now the 1050ti series. With these low power cards I am able to run more CPU tasks with my I5s/I7s. Since I have downgraded this year from 980Tis and others, the cpu work is fun to participate in. Sure everyone loves getting points, but lately I'm enjoying the full aspect of this program by helping crunch gravitational wave and gamma units.
If your plans hold true you will be able to heat a few rooms with those machines. I sure did. My basement was the go to place in the winter when it was below 0F outside.
my initial thought with dual 2670 + GPU systems is the ability to diversify my contribution, AKA Iike the output and efficiency of GPU but also think lots of good science can come from CPU tasks. the 16 cores should be more than capable to run 2 cards at high output while maintaining a reasonable CPU presence.
The 1070's output more credit per day, at a Slight disadvantage in power right? I'm not so much the guy that wants to be number 1, but I do want to contribute as much as possible. essentially, multiple rigs dumping power towards science. The biggest thing right now though, it seems to be equivalent cost to build the dual xeon (ignoring power costs) as it is to build an i5 system. at least from my research. I'm happy to be wrong on this though. It seems to be around $1000USD to build any system before cards so really I'm looking for max contribution.
If I do switch to GPU rigs and CPU rigs, I would need equivalent power out of each category, because I feel strongly that ignoring CPU tasks is denying science simply because of RAC.
Again, maybe it's solely due to my limited systems, but I feel like the heat won't be as big of a factor for me, especially if I strategically place the systems to heat the house.
Indeed. A quality PSU with a
)
Indeed. A quality PSU with a 90% efficiency rating at the wattage needed can save money in the long run.
Lots of great info here guys!
)
Lots of great info here guys! Yea, I know a fair bit about house wiring and am familiar with the 80% rule (aka never exceed 80% of a circuits rated load).
I wish I was as lucky as you to have 230 from the wall, increasing voltage decreases amps, but doesn't save you power. it does however, almost always mean you can put more on a circuit because there is more wattage available to split between devices.
I will be building a dual 2670 with dual (I'll say dual for now) 1060 or 1070 early next year. I'm still crunching the numbers on what would be the best value for me, aka less concerned about initial cost, more concerned about credit/watt and output.
I live in northwestern Wisconsin, it can get to ~30c (90's f for you anti SI) during late July through mid August, however September-June it pretty much stays below 15c. Right now Oct 26, its 5c outside. I have to heat my home with Propane, however, Electricity is somewhat cheaper than Propane here, so the heat is less of an issue. What I may be surprised by is how much more heat comes out of the new systems compared to my current systems... After all, 4 out of 5 of my current systems are CPU only and barely produce enough credit to make it worth powering them.
So I started looking at UPS
)
So I started looking at UPS systems, do I need to find out actual power consumption before calculating UPS size? according to the info I have gleaned, you want the UPS VA rating to be around 140% of system wattage due to the conversion between Watts and VA. With the online watt calculators (I Know, I'm buying a Kill-A-Watt soon) that would mean each system would need its own 1400va UPS. that is clearly excessive, as 3000va is claimed to run an entire rack of servers.
It's fascinating to try and use computers for something other than gaming or low level server use (aka minecraft server) and find any useful information. Every time I try to look into high power computing or multi GPU systems I run into endless people telling me to virtualize, or that more than 2 GPU is a waste because it doesn't scale. It can get frustrating.
The 1400VA UPS sounds about
)
The 1400VA UPS sounds about right for a server CPU and dual 1070's. I'm using a APC BackUPS 1500 for my crunchers with FX-8350/70's and dual 1070's. The UPS says loading is around 60-65% or about 480-540 watts. That gives me about 9 minutes of runtime before the UPS shuts itself down after a power outage.
Jordan Kallinen wrote:I will
)
I can't + enough the the "buy an efficient PSU" (and run it in the sweet spot ~40-80%), do the calcs the efficiency savings alone will pay for itself. My rough rule of thumb is 1 watt is 1 pound per year.
Also the efficiency reduces heat in the case, and so the room, so less cooling and less thermal stress on components and occupants!
Dual CPU motherboards, hmmm, are hard to come by (certainly in ATX size), i built one mainly to do CPU tasks, and because ebay was basically giving away 2660s for 60USD it became financially (sort of) feasible. Whilst i liked building it, it's not ideal for multiple GPUs the 8 DIMMS memory (to resolve memory bottlenecks) and dual coolers eat up to much case space. I have an idle HD 7990 furnace which may go in for winter or if the GW tasks go GPU.
You will also need an addition 8pin feed for the second CPU, make certain you have that not all PSUs have it.
Jordan Kallinen wrote: With
)
Sizing UPS is sticky, and depends on what you want it to do for you, and whether you hope it will still do it when the batteries have some months on them.
Hoping to stick a big number label on the machine, they commonly put in such tiny batteries relative to the power components that the UPS may only deliver rated output for five minutes when the batteries are fresh. As the type of batteries used (lead-acid gel cells, generally) combined with the charging and usage environment means the batteries fairly rapidly lose gusto, a "just barely adequate" UPS on day zero may not carry full fault load for even 5 seconds a few months later.
If you actually want to have enough battery to run for long enough to give you time for a graceful shut-down (think waking in the middle of the night to a chorus of beeps from multiple UPS units, then dashing about first diagnosing and then doing shut-downs) and if you don't succeed in getting some scheme for the UPS to inform the host system it is running on battery, with the host system then shutting down your Einstein work, then you need far more battery capacity than if you just want to ride out the occasional 5-second bump, especially if you do get the automatic power reduction to work.
I urge you to pay attention to battery capacity, and not just claimed VA rating. You may find it helpful to look up what the replacement batteries are for the unit, as the vendor may not actually tell you what is in the box.
I bought quite a few APC units over the years, but they fell out of my favor about a decade ago and I've used CyberPower since. I don't know whether that is a wise choice currently.
archae86 wrote:I urge you to
)
I have looked a couple of times at UPS - the power supply here is - touch wood very good, perhaps one or two outages per year.
When i did look - i could not work out how efficient they were, meaning under normal running, mains powered, what wattage (if any) do they use?
Jordan Kallinen wrote:I wish
)
Modern PC power supplies will run a couple of percent more efficient on 230V compared to 115V. Take a look at the power efficiency curves for the Corsair CX600 power supply (under Tech Specs).
http://www.corsair.com/en-us/cx600-80-plusr-bronze-certified-power-supply
Just comparing the cards by themselves, the GTX1060 is a better value than the GTX1070. However, when the cost of the infrastructure to provide a PCI-E slot is taken into consideration, a GTX1070 system is a better value. I have a dual GTX1070 setup dedicated to E@H and am happy with my GPU decision. However, I think you might be happier with a high end i5 instead of a dual 2670 setup. I no longer do any CPU crunching on machines with GPUs, so that probably colors my judgement.
n12365 wrote: Just comparing
)
I run a slower setup now with 750tis, and now the 1050ti series. With these low power cards I am able to run more CPU tasks with my I5s/I7s. Since I have downgraded this year from 980Tis and others, the cpu work is fun to participate in. Sure everyone loves getting points, but lately I'm enjoying the full aspect of this program by helping crunch gravitational wave and gamma units.
If your plans hold true you will be able to heat a few rooms with those machines. I sure did. My basement was the go to place in the winter when it was below 0F outside.
my initial thought with dual
)
my initial thought with dual 2670 + GPU systems is the ability to diversify my contribution, AKA Iike the output and efficiency of GPU but also think lots of good science can come from CPU tasks. the 16 cores should be more than capable to run 2 cards at high output while maintaining a reasonable CPU presence.
The 1070's output more credit per day, at a Slight disadvantage in power right? I'm not so much the guy that wants to be number 1, but I do want to contribute as much as possible. essentially, multiple rigs dumping power towards science. The biggest thing right now though, it seems to be equivalent cost to build the dual xeon (ignoring power costs) as it is to build an i5 system. at least from my research. I'm happy to be wrong on this though. It seems to be around $1000USD to build any system before cards so really I'm looking for max contribution.
If I do switch to GPU rigs and CPU rigs, I would need equivalent power out of each category, because I feel strongly that ignoring CPU tasks is denying science simply because of RAC.
Again, maybe it's solely due to my limited systems, but I feel like the heat won't be as big of a factor for me, especially if I strategically place the systems to heat the house.