Multiple Higgs and a pantheon of gods?

Mike Hewson
Mike Hewson
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RE: I really don't want to

Message 98395 in response to message 98394

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I really don't want to get into the weeds on this, because I think that's part of the problem. I look at fuzzy logic as new approach at looking at solving a problem. Rather then the usual approach of classifying and quantifying the parameters of the what you 'think' you need to know to solve the problem. Look at the problem in a more indirect way and just develop a system that attends to the symptoms of the problem. The problem over time will take care of itself. I know I am using the wrong words.


I know where you're at! T'is a weedy area .... :-):-)

I think Mr Kosko was/is harshly dealt with for his alternate view and I have alot of respect for him standing his ground. His approach was discarded not because it was wrong, but because it was new. In strict logical terms the equivalence of predictions is a strength, not a weakness. I reckon it's a matter of viewpoint as to which is 'simpler' on any Occam scale. Certainly the counter-intuitive roadblock we currently have with QM deserves 'rim shot' attempts. With particle physics the calculational gymnastics frequently breaches maths rigour. I found out the other day that Feynman's sum-over-histories program has significant gaps in the strictness of proofs, thus it is used with a quick blurring over the uncomfortable bits ( 'cos the experimental predictions are so great ).

This was seen in the early days of QM too, with 'wave mechanics' ( Schroedinger ) and 'matrix mechanics' ( Heisenberg ). Sets of particular solutions to differential equations morph to eigenvectors of matrix transformations. Utterly equivalent, though that wasn't initially apparent. Potayto/potahto. I've seen similiar discussions about the generation of lift by aeroplane wings - is it pressure differentials or airflow deflection ?? It's actually both depending on which terms within Bernouilli's Equation ( sum of the pressure energies is constant ) that you want to focus upon ( referring molecular movement to a centre of mass point vs movement of the centre of mass ).

I understand the Japanese were way more receptive ( culture etc .... ) to fuzzy principles, thus just got on with building better washing machines. :-) :-)

Cheers, Mike.

I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter. Blaise Pascal

tullio
tullio
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I believe my Yashica camera

I believe my Yashica camera uses fuzzy logic to decide on what I am really focusing. It works most of the times, except in foggy weather, then the photo is really fuzzy.
Tullio

Rod
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RE: I believe my Yashica

Message 98397 in response to message 98396

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I believe my Yashica camera uses fuzzy logic to decide on what I am really focusing. It works most of the times, except in foggy weather, then the photo is really fuzzy.
Tullio

It also used in digital cameras for image stabilization.

It did a search in ieee explorer digital library. It is a little below the radar for the past 10 years.. still a little bit exotic..:-)

[url=http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/search/freesearchresult.jsp?queryText=fuzzy%20logic&openedRefinements=*&pageNumber=11&searchField=Search%20All&pageNumber=1] Fuzzy Logic[/url]

There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot. - Aldo Leopold

Mike Hewson
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I think too many got hung up

I think too many got hung up on the word 'fuzzy'. Perhaps 'adaptive logic' or 'contingent logic' would have flown better. Since Mr Kosko is/was from the US west coast then the typical 'not-invented-here' syndrome/problem doesn't apply. I'd taken to fuzzy logic quite easily as I had already and unknowingly been doing much of it anyway : I perpetually have to make judgments on incomplete information under time constraints where short and even long aiming points wobble about. 'Linear thinking' doctors tend to react too slowly to stay up/ahead in realtime for patient benefit. Thus any medical students with that nature I tend to nudge away from emergency-departments/operating-theatres/sharp-instruments, and towards radiology or dermatology or admin ... :-) :-)

But I'm not alone in that : there is no shortage of tasks with that character. A good example, if you have the coverage, is NASCAR races. Apparently quite boring ( just 'round and 'round ) but on closer examination alot of fuzzy decisions get made. No, I don't watch it just for the spectacular accidents. :-)

Back to the topic. I think the 'multiple particles' translates to a data decomposition with multiple aspects - as is admitted 'there were other possible interpretations'. Mr Higgs himself only hypothecated a mechanism ( so in quantum speak we create a particle category/type 'The Higgs Boson' to enact it ) without requiring any particular number to be actually found. So plurality is no new news at all.

Cheers, Mike.

I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter. Blaise Pascal

tullio
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AFAIK Fuzzy logic was started

AFAIK Fuzzy logic was started by Lofti Zadeh in 1965.
Tullio

Mike Hewson
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RE: AFAIK Fuzzy logic was

Message 98400 in response to message 98399

Quote:
AFAIK Fuzzy logic was started by Lofti Zadeh in 1965.
Tullio


Yes, you are quite right. Mr Kosko has always acknowledged that.

Cheers, Mike.

I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter. Blaise Pascal

Mike Hewson
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RE: ... the

Message 98401 in response to message 98395

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... the counter-intuitive roadblock we currently have with QM ....


I refer specifically to the double slit experiment where some parts of the distant screen receive fewer counts when another slit is opened. I understand perfectly the maths/logic - in vector language adding and modulus-taking are not commutative operations - hence an 'interference term' exists. So I might change my holiday destination depending on freeway availability and traffic ......

...... however since this occurs even in scenarios where one particle or less is transiting the apparatus simultaneously then : what the heck is going on! All other QM conundrums - Stern/Gerlach say - may be analogised to this one ..... to make macroscopic 'sense' then you have to breach some Big Principles like causality or locality, which thus begin to look like large scale luxuries that the quantum realm doesn't need.

Hmmmm .... I'm thinking of ant trails now. They look organised and functionally integrated from several meters away but are completely understandable using entirely small scale and local rules ( time decaying pheromone diffusion gradients ). A young Richard Feynman used to watch such ants all day, occasionally diverting the ants and studying the nest's response. Maybe I should do the same ..... :-)

Cheers, Mike.

I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter. Blaise Pascal

mikey
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RE: Hmmmm .... I'm thinking

Message 98402 in response to message 98401

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Hmmmm .... I'm thinking of ant trails now. They look organised and functionally integrated from several meters away but are completely understandable using entirely small scale and local rules ( time decaying pheromone diffusion gradients ). A young Richard Feynman used to watch such ants all day, occasionally diverting the ants and studying the nest's response. Maybe I should do the same ..... :-)

Cheers, Mike.

What would be interesting is if you could use ant pheromones to change their path, not just a physical change in their path such as a board.

Rod
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RE: I think too many got

Message 98403 in response to message 98398

Quote:
I think too many got hung up on the word 'fuzzy'. Perhaps 'adaptive logic' or 'contingent logic' would have flown better.

I suspect that nobody has figured a way to make money with it.

There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot. - Aldo Leopold

tullio
tullio
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RE: I suspect that nobody

Message 98404 in response to message 98403

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I suspect that nobody has figured a way to make money with it.


But there are washing machines making use of it to decide how dirty your laundry is and set accordingly the work parameters.
Tullio

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