A none hump yard, like my home terminal, has no hump at all. At my terminal, we use what is called flat switching. We go into a track that needs classified, grab a cut of 20-30 cars, and pull them out on the lead. The assistant conductor, working as a switchman, manually throws switches and lines up the route for the first car(s). The foreman conductor, then signals the engine to go to full throttle and shove the cut of cars. When the cars get fast enough, the conductor signals for the engineer to stop, pulls the cut lever on the car, and the car free rolls down the lead and into the proper track, just like a hump yard. Rinse and repeat up to 300 times in one shift.
That, boys and girls, is today's lesson in train car classification. :-)
Phil
At the museum, we sometimes have to switch equipment around. Lots of stuff and not enough space for it (there is a rule that if you want to acquire a new piece, even if it's a donation, you have to pay for the track to put it on). When someone wants to take something into the shop, or get it out to use it, or get it out of the way to fix the track, we have to do switching. It often has to be planned out even more carefully than revenue freight switching, due to the limited space and length of the leads. And we have a rule against kicking cars. All equipment has to be coupled to the power until it comes to a stop.
Let me add that as engineer of this thread, I have closed the throttle and am about to make an initial 10 pound set of the air and switch to dynamics.
David
Miserable old git
Patiently waiting for the asteroid with my name on it.
At the museum, we sometimes have to switch equipment around. Lots of stuff and not enough space for it (there is a rule that if you want to acquire a new piece, even if it's a donation, you have to pay for the track to put it on). When someone wants to take something into the shop, or get it out to use it, or get it out of the way to fix the track, we have to do switching. It often has to be planned out even more carefully than revenue freight switching, due to the limited space and length of the leads. And we have a rule against kicking cars. All equipment has to be coupled to the power until it comes to a stop.
Let me add that as engineer of this thread, I have closed the throttle and am about to make an initial 10 pound set of the air and switch to dynamics.
It does not surprise me that you are not allowed to kick cars. First of all, I imagine you wouldn't want to be banging around nicely restored rail cars. Second of all, we get away with kicking because a flat switching yard is a "bowl" yard. The entire yard is ever so slightly shaped like a bowl, with the ends slightly raised to prevent cars running out of either end of a track. There are very strict FRA requirements for the exact shape of a bowl yard, and they DO check using surveyors. Also, some of our tracks are over a mile long. A museum cannot afford that kind of real estate.
Regarding the planning of switch moves. It's the hardest when the yard is packed. There's just no room to juggle moves. For the most part we have it easy, there is always a train leaving, making more room. On the other hand, a museum yard does not have constant departures and is always packed to the gills.
At the museum, we sometimes have to switch equipment around. Lots of stuff and not enough space for it (there is a rule that if you want to acquire a new piece, even if it's a donation, you have to pay for the track to put it on). When someone wants to take something into the shop, or get it out to use it, or get it out of the way to fix the track, we have to do switching. It often has to be planned out even more carefully than revenue freight switching, due to the limited space and length of the leads. And we have a rule against kicking cars. All equipment has to be coupled to the power until it comes to a stop.
Let me add that as engineer of this thread, I have closed the throttle and am about to make an initial 10 pound set of the air and switch to dynamics.
It does not surprise me that you are not allowed to kick cars. First of all, I imagine you wouldn't want to be banging around nicely restored rail cars. Second of all, we get away with kicking because a flat switching yard is a "bowl" yard. The entire yard is ever so slightly shaped like a bowl, with the ends slightly raised to prevent cars running out of either end of a track. There are very strict FRA requirements for the exact shape of a bowl yard, and they DO check using surveyors. Also, some of our tracks are over a mile long. A museum cannot afford that kind of real estate.
Regarding the planning of switch moves. It's the hardest when the yard is packed. There's just no room to juggle moves. For the most part we have it easy, there is always a train leaving, making more room. On the other hand, a museum yard does not have constant departures and is always packed to the gills.
Phil
Absolutely true all around, although we do have plenty of land (most of it leased out for continued farming). The museum board has fairly aggressively bought surrounding land so we don't get hemmed in by development. You're right about our yards not being bowls. They are intentionally flat so nothing will roll (and we still require wheel chocks).
Mike will be interested to hear that Eskbank Rail Heritage Centre has purchased a Shay type locomotive from the US. (Their web site doesn't say anything about it, though.)
David
Miserable old git
Patiently waiting for the asteroid with my name on it.
Mike will be interested to hear that Eskbank Rail Heritage Centre has purchased a Shay type locomotive from the US. (Their web site doesn't say anything about it, though.)
Thanks, I knew nothing ( or I've only seen it from the left side ) of the Shay till you mentioned it. Perhaps I saw it by another name. Anyway, what an interesting gadget it is! That right side gear is fascinating. That's what I love about trains : all the solutions invented to solve some issue. Articulation with separate drive units is a good trick too, for getting around bends with longer engines and applying more traction eg. the Big Boy 9000's. Compounding to get a second bite of the steam is a goodie also. There's that sliding offset sling ( I don't know the right name ) that you can reverse wheel direction with. Plus as you mention there's a bucket of logic-level stuff like switching, sorting and efficiency.
IMHO the greatest/smartest idea is also the most obvious one : the train as a compound device can be whatever you want it to be. Mix and match! Want more power ? Add another engine. Some extra ore, or oil, or vegetables, or wood, or whatchamacallit needs to go? Just add the right type of car. Think modular, but also think in summation too. Where else would you see a vehicle with a length that may be measured in miles? What's the record on that guys ? I know our western mines have very long consists of ore going from well inland to ports eg. Port Hedland.
Quote:
[aside]You see classical physics is often bagged for being boring or wrong or incomplete, when in fact it is a superb body of work provided that you understand it is theory fit for human scale descriptions. In that role it is unsurpassed. You don't need special relativity - that's for extraordinary high speeds. You don't need general relativity - that's for stars and galaxies and universes. You don't need quantum mechanics - that's for atomic sizes or less, and you can avoid it for most simple chemical questions. All of particle physics is definitely not requisite. Trains are a great way to focus classical physics thinking.[/aside]
Quote:
Let me add that as engineer of this thread, I have closed the throttle and am about to make an initial 10 pound set of the air and switch to dynamics.
So is that a 'lapping' ? :-)
Quote:
That, boys and girls, is today's lesson in train car classification. :-)
Thanks Phil! When watching the humps I think of what modelling would need apply to predict the subsequent roll after the squealy bit ie. how fast would it be going at some given distance down & along the siding. Thus the first cars into a given siding need to go long and stop with a bumper hit or have the bowl do it for you. The later ones need to ease up shorter. There would be different friction losses applying depending on the radius of curvatures - tighter is more - and thus each of the 50 or so sidings has it's own drag cost to get there. I also note the use of RFID tags and readers, plus or minus the coupling method ( automatic or manual ? ). The list of considerations goes on & on. But you wouldn't necessarily need to model exclusively, you could do ballpark estimates first up and then 'calibrate the yard' as you go. Test with common or known loads, interpolate, extrapolate. I believe the first hump yards with remote control braking had guys who were well practised and sensed the job by ready reckoning.
Cheers Mike.
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
Where else would you see a vehicle with a length that may be measured in miles? What's the record on that guys ?
My personal record is 13,000 feet. About 2.5 miles in length. I have heard of "test" trains much much longer, in the 30,000 foot range.
More interesting but useless trivia. The above train had an air problem somewhere and kept going into emergency brake applications, after which you must walk the train and inspect it for damage. I walked that darn thing twice! A total of 10 miles walking on railroad ballast. I won't print what I told the dispatcher when it dumped on us the third time. :-)
Phil
Edit: A hump yard has extra retarders at the far end of the classification tracks that completely stop rail cars so they don't exit the far end of the tracks.
This page suggests indeed it was one of our western ore trains, a one off 'test' some 7.5km long :
Quote:
Australia BHP Run on 21 June 2001, comprising 682 wagons and hauled by eight 6000 hp General Electric AC6000CW diesel-electric locomotives controlled by a single driver with a total length of 7.353 km on the 275 km iron ore railway to Port Hedland in Western Australia – total weight 99,734 tons
They were testing unified train control across that consist. I think our Nullarbor Plain has the longest straight stretch of rail too at 478km. Probably the easiest track to survey for construction. Nullarbor literally means null-arbor ie. no trees. If it wasn't for Earth's curvature it would be as flat as a billiard table. The original track laid in 1917 was replaced in 1969 because the day/night heat cycling kept buckling the rails terribly and the line sank into and/or was drifted over by the sands anyway. They also took the opportunity to match gauges.
Cheers, Mike.
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
I once watched from a good distance as cars rolled off the hump at Burlington Northern's (before the merger with Santa Fe) Northtown Yard in Minneapolis. The computer had obviously gotten out of sync with how far the cars were rolling; I'd see a car roll down and hit the cut already in the track, then a couple seconds later (that's how far away I was) I'd hear a loud BAM!! I suspect there were a lot of claims for damage for the loads in those cars (the box cars, anyway).
A car will roll a good long way on a straight and level track with no outside force acting on it. At the museum, we have had strong winds blow around cars that weren't properly secured. (Or so I've heard.)
The thread's dynamic brakes are taking hold nicely. I predict a smooth stop at our destination.
David
Miserable old git
Patiently waiting for the asteroid with my name on it.
RE: There used to be a
"Small world alert!!!" Alexandria area is where I grew up. Your draft card (18 y/o) got you a beer in DC. Lots of weekend commutes.
RE: A none hump yard, like
At the museum, we sometimes have to switch equipment around. Lots of stuff and not enough space for it (there is a rule that if you want to acquire a new piece, even if it's a donation, you have to pay for the track to put it on). When someone wants to take something into the shop, or get it out to use it, or get it out of the way to fix the track, we have to do switching. It often has to be planned out even more carefully than revenue freight switching, due to the limited space and length of the leads. And we have a rule against kicking cars. All equipment has to be coupled to the power until it comes to a stop.
Let me add that as engineer of this thread, I have closed the throttle and am about to make an initial 10 pound set of the air and switch to dynamics.
David
Miserable old git
Patiently waiting for the asteroid with my name on it.
RE: At the museum, we
It does not surprise me that you are not allowed to kick cars. First of all, I imagine you wouldn't want to be banging around nicely restored rail cars. Second of all, we get away with kicking because a flat switching yard is a "bowl" yard. The entire yard is ever so slightly shaped like a bowl, with the ends slightly raised to prevent cars running out of either end of a track. There are very strict FRA requirements for the exact shape of a bowl yard, and they DO check using surveyors. Also, some of our tracks are over a mile long. A museum cannot afford that kind of real estate.
Regarding the planning of switch moves. It's the hardest when the yard is packed. There's just no room to juggle moves. For the most part we have it easy, there is always a train leaving, making more room. On the other hand, a museum yard does not have constant departures and is always packed to the gills.
Phil
RE: RE: At the museum, we
Absolutely true all around, although we do have plenty of land (most of it leased out for continued farming). The museum board has fairly aggressively bought surrounding land so we don't get hemmed in by development. You're right about our yards not being bowls. They are intentionally flat so nothing will roll (and we still require wheel chocks).
Mike will be interested to hear that Eskbank Rail Heritage Centre has purchased a Shay type locomotive from the US. (Their web site doesn't say anything about it, though.)
David
Miserable old git
Patiently waiting for the asteroid with my name on it.
RE: Mike will be interested
Thanks, I knew nothing ( or I've only seen it from the left side ) of the Shay till you mentioned it. Perhaps I saw it by another name. Anyway, what an interesting gadget it is! That right side gear is fascinating. That's what I love about trains : all the solutions invented to solve some issue. Articulation with separate drive units is a good trick too, for getting around bends with longer engines and applying more traction eg. the Big Boy 9000's. Compounding to get a second bite of the steam is a goodie also. There's that sliding offset sling ( I don't know the right name ) that you can reverse wheel direction with. Plus as you mention there's a bucket of logic-level stuff like switching, sorting and efficiency.
IMHO the greatest/smartest idea is also the most obvious one : the train as a compound device can be whatever you want it to be. Mix and match! Want more power ? Add another engine. Some extra ore, or oil, or vegetables, or wood, or whatchamacallit needs to go? Just add the right type of car. Think modular, but also think in summation too. Where else would you see a vehicle with a length that may be measured in miles? What's the record on that guys ? I know our western mines have very long consists of ore going from well inland to ports eg. Port Hedland.
So is that a 'lapping' ? :-)
Thanks Phil! When watching the humps I think of what modelling would need apply to predict the subsequent roll after the squealy bit ie. how fast would it be going at some given distance down & along the siding. Thus the first cars into a given siding need to go long and stop with a bumper hit or have the bowl do it for you. The later ones need to ease up shorter. There would be different friction losses applying depending on the radius of curvatures - tighter is more - and thus each of the 50 or so sidings has it's own drag cost to get there. I also note the use of RFID tags and readers, plus or minus the coupling method ( automatic or manual ? ). The list of considerations goes on & on. But you wouldn't necessarily need to model exclusively, you could do ballpark estimates first up and then 'calibrate the yard' as you go. Test with common or known loads, interpolate, extrapolate. I believe the first hump yards with remote control braking had guys who were well practised and sensed the job by ready reckoning.
Cheers Mike.
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
RE: Where else would you
My personal record is 13,000 feet. About 2.5 miles in length. I have heard of "test" trains much much longer, in the 30,000 foot range.
More interesting but useless trivia. The above train had an air problem somewhere and kept going into emergency brake applications, after which you must walk the train and inspect it for damage. I walked that darn thing twice! A total of 10 miles walking on railroad ballast. I won't print what I told the dispatcher when it dumped on us the third time. :-)
Phil
Edit: A hump yard has extra retarders at the far end of the classification tracks that completely stop rail cars so they don't exit the far end of the tracks.
This page suggests indeed it
This page suggests indeed it was one of our western ore trains, a one off 'test' some 7.5km long :
They were testing unified train control across that consist. I think our Nullarbor Plain has the longest straight stretch of rail too at 478km. Probably the easiest track to survey for construction. Nullarbor literally means null-arbor ie. no trees. If it wasn't for Earth's curvature it would be as flat as a billiard table. The original track laid in 1917 was replaced in 1969 because the day/night heat cycling kept buckling the rails terribly and the line sank into and/or was drifted over by the sands anyway. They also took the opportunity to match gauges.
Cheers, Mike.
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
I am just winning!
I am just winning!
I once watched from a good
I once watched from a good distance as cars rolled off the hump at Burlington Northern's (before the merger with Santa Fe) Northtown Yard in Minneapolis. The computer had obviously gotten out of sync with how far the cars were rolling; I'd see a car roll down and hit the cut already in the track, then a couple seconds later (that's how far away I was) I'd hear a loud BAM!! I suspect there were a lot of claims for damage for the loads in those cars (the box cars, anyway).
A car will roll a good long way on a straight and level track with no outside force acting on it. At the museum, we have had strong winds blow around cars that weren't properly secured. (Or so I've heard.)
The thread's dynamic brakes are taking hold nicely. I predict a smooth stop at our destination.
David
Miserable old git
Patiently waiting for the asteroid with my name on it.
Good morning everyone. :-)
Good morning everyone. :-)
TimeLord04
Have TARDIS, will travel...
Come along K-9!
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