Cafe Einstein - LPTPW 17 - animal, vegetable, and/or a minerally type chemically thing, and maybe some other things as well, yes :)

David S
David S
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RE: RE: Ah good picture,

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Ah good picture, staged it maybe but it got the point across.

That is a nice picture, Mikey :)

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Some areas of towns get MANY more calls than other areas of the same town.

Well isn't that bad management on a town basis? Isn't the Town Fire Chief using his resources effectively?

Fire takes hold so fast though. It's only good sense to send units from the nearest station wherever possible. If one area is more prone to fires than another, it should not be used to justify cutting the service in the area with less. A fire is a fire. The local fire station to where my daughter was living had to fight really hard to stay open. Things get very complicated when you add in navigating through busy city streets. Their unit lost several men in a fire in a warehouse just down the road from where I first lived in the east end. The warehouse was in the same street as a fire station that had been closed down a few years beforehand - for the very flawed reasons Mikey mentioned in his post. The extra time taken to get to it, is what cost those men their lives :(


Sounds like conservative and/or beancounter thinking.

I am reminded of the episode of Emergency! where Rampart hired a supply nurse. She would only give each squad enough supplies for their average use. Even I could see the flaw in that. If the average becomes the maximum, then the average must fall, and pretty soon someone will decide to make the new average the maximum, and eventually there will be none at all.

I did recognize the symbols of the elements in Annie's graphic, but I'm not even going to attempt to decipher all the formulae. I also got the reverse psychology, but I have to wonder... if she's telling us there's reverse psychology involved, does that mean there's actually reverse reverse psychology? Wondering if the ship is the Mayflower. Thinking the plump, frilly dude is probably George III, but no real idea.

David

Miserable old git
Patiently waiting for the asteroid with my name on it.

anniet
anniet
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RE: the plump, frilly dude

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the plump, frilly dude is probably George III


Different frilly dude different country but their reigns did overlap :)

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Chris S
Chris S
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If it was the Mayflower that

If it was the Mayflower that was in 1620, George III reign was 1760-1820.

Waiting for Godot & salvation :-)

Why do doctors have to practice?
You'd think they'd have got it right by now

mikey
mikey
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RE: Ah good picture, staged

Quote:

Ah good picture, staged it maybe but it got the point across.

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Some areas of towns get MANY more calls than other areas of the same town.

Well isn't that bad management on a town basis? Isn't the Town Fire Chief using his resources effectively?

Most people like the idea of living next to a fire station, or police station, thinking it would be cool and they would be extra safe, but then the reality sinks in when they realize that if the guys next door are on a call then someone from farther away has to come and all the benefits are gone! Add in the near constant, for most, noise of their comings and going and we end up with alot of "NIMBY's", 'not in my backyard' folks. Add in the cost just to design and build a fire station, they can't be generic because no one wants something looking like a wharehouse in the middle of their neighborhood. In fact one of the ones I worked at I drove by 3 times, as a rookie, before I noticed the extra large garage doors on it and realized what it was. It looks exactly like every house in the neighborhood, of now over one million dollar homes, but with bigger garage doors! It even has a working fireplace in it, never used of course. Add in cost of each fire engine itself of over 250k and a ladder truck at over 500k each, and even without the people and other associated stuff fire stations need it quickly becomes a large part of any capital budget.

Then as anniet said trying to close one is nearly impossible due to the public outrage of 'how long it will take to get to my house', and moving a fire station is nearly impossible. Once you have one you tend to feel it's 'your's' and you don't want to let it go. While I was working every year they would bring me into the office to redraw the response maps leaving out this or that fire station showing the new response times, traffic and other stuff changed so the maps would need updating. You only have 4.5 minutes to save a heart attack victim or they start suffering permanent brain damage. Then the fire department would present that to the local government officials at budget time and say 'to meet our required cuts we need to close fire station X and this would be the results'. In my 24 years there we NEVER closed a fire station and only opened MORE of them!! Showing the Mayor or Members of the City Council that THEIR home was now outside the 4.5 minutes response time is both eye opening and a no brainer to keep the station open and get more money too! Sometimes one would say 'well how MUCH longer would it be?' thinking maybe they would be at work or whatever. We would explain that the times could be as high as 8 or even 9 minutes and poof the money would flow!! Their voters put ALOT of pressure on them and like most politicians they want to keep their jobs.

David S
David S
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I once listened to our fire

I once listened to our fire department, in the days before they would routinely assign an engine company to a medical call. At the time, I think we had 7 stations, of which 4 had paramedics and ambulances. They got a call for a possible heart attack when no ambulance was available. They called for mutual aid, which took a good 10-15 minutes just to get into town. Just when they were within half a mile of the scene, one of ours became available and the chief on duty ordered that they be assigned and the mutual aid be returned. The dispatcher called the mutual aid and asked for their location, then relayed it to the chief, who still insisted on cancelling them and sending our own. That easily added yet another 5 minutes to the response time. If I ever heard the final result of this, I don't remember it.

We now have 10 stations, I think, with I think 7 of them having regularly assigned ambulances. More importantly, though, EVERY firefighter is also a paramedic and every piece of apparatus carries paramedic equipment, so if an ambulance isn't close enough (and often even if one is) another crew will be sent and can start treatment before the ambulance arrives... or cancel it if it's not needed. (There are also at least two spare ambulances which can be staffed and assigned to special events with large crowds, or added to a station without one for times when history shows they will be needed.)

Unfortunately, I can't listen to them any more because they went to a proprietary digital radio system which cannot be monitored without the right equipment and programming.

[edit]
Phil, I really had one of those days at the museum on Sunday.

David

Miserable old git
Patiently waiting for the asteroid with my name on it.

Chris S
Chris S
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We have lost a number of fire

We have lost a number of fire stations in London in recent years due to cost cutting and it nothing short of a national and public scandal. Fire station cuts. If I ever meet Boris Johnson he'll regret it big time I promise you!

In the UK the police, fire, and ambulance although called in total the Emergency Services, work as separate entities. But each person has had basic first aid training. If an ambulance call is made in London, there is initially the paramedic fast response vehicle, followed a couple of minutes later by the ambulance itself. I know this because I live 1/4 mile away from an ambulance station, and 1 mile away from an A&E hospital.

The days when firemen were called firemen because they put out fires is long gone. They are now called the Fire & Rescue Service. Which means that trained fire fighters have to rescue cats up trees and idiot members of the public that cant be trusted to behave sensibly. They also have to turn out for nasty motorway smash ups extricating dead people and body parts from crashed vehicles.

In my view they should be split into two separate but integrated units, a fire fighting outfit, and a rescue service. But it will never happen. All the police do is direct traffic at incidents, and they are not very good at that most times.

Waiting for Godot & salvation :-)

Why do doctors have to practice?
You'd think they'd have got it right by now

David S
David S
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Oh good, Chris posted again.

Oh good, Chris posted again. Now I can tell Phil about my day. Chris can skip it; he already saw it at Seti.

I was conductor of the coach train, with three cars and an SD24 for power. The engine had been left on the train the night before, so I didn't have to couple it and make the air. It was already warmed up when I arrived. I had just unlocked the cars when the engineer showed up and said he was ready for the initial brake test whenever I was. I said let's do it. Walk all the way around the train twice (I'm sure you think that's nothing compared to doing it on 100+ car freights). Then remember I haven't attached the tailhose. Do that and test it. Put out the red paddles (instead of a red marker light on the rear). Load passengers and go.

Get to the east end and start back, and one of the paddles falls off. Oh well, I still have one.

There is still stuff parked on the mainline from the previous weekend, so we're just coming straight back into the station via East Switch instead of going to the west end. Saturday's engineer would make the stop in the station (he had an object on the platform so he would know exactly where to stop), but Sunday's won't and insists that I have to do it with the tailhose. Oooo-kay. First trip, I stopped the entire train's length short of where I wanted to be. (I got a bit better with each trip, but I reeeealy did not want to hit the cars sitting there.)

Second trip had so many people I asked one of the guys from the electric train to be trainman for me. I saw my paddle on the ground and got off to retrieve it. BARELY managed to climb on again. I'll probably blow my knee out one of these days.

Before the third trip, the Take the Throttle people showed up. We decided they would ride in the engine on the 3:00 trip as their orientation and then do their actual trip as soon as we got back. This was fine, and I got to sit down and relax outbound. But before we got back from their trip, the people who had spent several hours with a bucket of lacquer thinner cleaning the overnight graffiti off one of the C&NW bilevel cars finished, and some of them started switching the cars that had been left all over. So I had to stop at signal 151 (half mile out from East Switch) and wait about 10 minutes.

Oh, by the way, the dispatcher was doing it for the first time ever. He was also running the streetcar, which he just qualified on.

The switch crews first move was to get the cars off the main, so we went down to the west end for the first time all day. As soon as we passed, the electric train departed, about 4:15. Switch crew left cars sitting in our way, so we couldn't go anywhere, but that was okay. Then they moved them just in time for us to do a 4:50 trip. We actually waited for the electric to return in case anyone wanted another ride. Also, engineer had his family with him for this one.

Then the real fun began.

There are two really obnoxious kids on the train, one of whom keeps yellng "all aboard!" inappropirately, even after I explained why he shouldn't. Won't stay in their seats. Won't heed my warning about the windows being crotchety. We get to the east end. The sun has come out for the first time all day, so I put on my sunglasses for the trip west. I call on the radio "504, let's go west." Nothing happens. "504, let's go west!" Nothing. Finally, engineer comes back with a sticking brake and he needs to talk to the diesel guy (engineer of the switcher). Problem is, from four miles away, nobody can hear our hand-held radios on their hand-held radios. Finally, I turn on my phone and call the museum office. Executive director answers and I tell him the problem. He gets ahold of diesel guy, who has dispatcher get on the base radio in the depot and tell my engineer to call him on the phone. After a few minutes, engineer says it will be a half hour before diesel guy can come out to look at it. My passengers are not happy with this. I ask dispatcher if another engine can come out to get the train. He does almost as good, asking the electric train crew if they can do a rescue mission. They can, because the switcher has been blocking them from putting the train away. I tell my passengers another train is coming to get them in 10 or 15 minutes. They are much happier.

Except for all aboard kid. He has been yelling, loud and close enough to hurt my ear a couple of times, and NOW he starts saying he's scared. Of what, I do not know.

Engineer walks back and tells me the problem. When we were in the station, he set the hand brake on the engine. When he released it, it didn't release. When we got to the east end, it was smoking. When he tried again to release it, he just made it tighter. The lever to flip it over to release wasn't working.

The signal system is set up so that when a train runs all the way to the east end, the signals automatically set themselves for its westbound trip and all the eastbound signals from Johnson Siding east are red. When the electric gets to Johnson, they have to call dispatcher for permission to pass the red absolute. Then they have to stop and proceed at all the permissives. Then they have to get permission again at Four Mile. Another permissive, and then they ask me for permission to approach my train. As they do, I tell the passengers to please sit down and be quiet. Electric pulls up to about ten inches from me and I tell the passengers they can now carefully step cross. They happily do. Electric train leaves (and then has to wait five minutes in Johnson for the switcher, finally on its way out; a more experienced dispatcher would have gotten the passengers back first). I sit down to wait. Mosquitoes are now coming out and attacking in large numbers.

Switcher pulls right up to me and four guys get off with tools. They walk the length of my train. I'm just considering whether to get off and go see what they're doing when they come walking back again, after about one minute. I say that was fast. One of them says diesel guy kicked it. I never heard any more details.

Switcher calls dispatcher for permission to head back. I call for permission to follow switcher. The sun has been clouded again, so I change my glasses again. Once more, I have to stop the train in the station. Then I have to look around on the ground until I find chocks for the wheels and place them. Get a big grease smudge on my white shirt. I pull the cut lever and have engineer pull away. Call dispatcher for permission to move the engine over to yard 2. Throw one of the hardest switches to throw in the whole museum; you would probably complain to your union rep about it. Engine goes by. Throw it back again (not any easier). Then I have to lock up the train and put the tailhose and paddles away in the depot (it's the last time they will be used this year).

Boy am I tired.

David

Miserable old git
Patiently waiting for the asteroid with my name on it.

Chris S
Chris S
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But it's worth reading again

But it's worth reading again :-))

Waiting for Godot & salvation :-)

Why do doctors have to practice?
You'd think they'd have got it right by now

mikey
mikey
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RE: Put out the red

Quote:

Put out the red paddles (instead of a red marker light on the rear). Load passengers and go.

Get to the east end and start back, and one of the paddles falls off. Oh well, I still have one.

I saw my paddle on the ground and got off to retrieve it. BARELY managed to climb on again. I'll probably blow my knee out one of these days.

Boy am I tired.

It sounds like an eventful day!!

One question though....can you put a small chain or lanyard on the "paddle" when it is in place so that even if it falls off it won't hit the ground? A chain attached where you put the paddle, along with a small place to hook it onto he paddle would do the trick, or vice versa. Safer too as then it won't accidentally end up on the track the next time it falls off. Who knows it could actually fall into a switch preventing it from working properly, slight to no chance but stranger things have happened.

David S
David S
Joined: 6 Dec 05
Posts: 2473
Credit: 22936222
RAC: 0

RE: RE: Put out the red

Quote:
Quote:

Put out the red paddles (instead of a red marker light on the rear). Load passengers and go.

Get to the east end and start back, and one of the paddles falls off. Oh well, I still have one.

I saw my paddle on the ground and got off to retrieve it. BARELY managed to climb on again. I'll probably blow my knee out one of these days.

Boy am I tired.

It sounds like an eventful day!!

One question though....can you put a small chain or lanyard on the "paddle" when it is in place so that even if it falls off it won't hit the ground? A chain attached where you put the paddle, along with a small place to hook it onto he paddle would do the trick, or vice versa. Safer too as then it won't accidentally end up on the track the next time it falls off. Who knows it could actually fall into a switch preventing it from working properly, slight to no chance but stranger things have happened.


I suppose that would be possible, but it would require installing a hook on the car to attach the chain to, and also a hook or a hole on the paddle for the other end of the chain. I could suggest it, but I certainly don't have the authority to do it myself.

What I didn't mention here was that this was all after I went out on Saturday, instead of staying home and taking a good long nap, because NOBODY had signed up to work anything. We ended up with the crew caller, the same electric guy who was there on Sunday, the lawyer, and me, to run two mainline trains and the streetcar. I did one trip on the North Shore train on the main, then switched to the streetcar after the lawyer detected a defect in one of the cars and called electric guy over to look at it. Then I conducted the last trip of the day on coach (with nothing eventful happening) and one more trip on the streetcar.

This weekend is actually working out to be better than originally planned. I had signed up to conduct the PCC L cars from the late 1950s on Sunday, but due to lack of qualified operators (which is why I wanted to work that train -- I want to learn to run them) it was cancelled and I was reassigned to the streetcar. I asked if I could switch to Saturday and crew caller said yes, and even better, he had to cancel the streetcar, but he's bringing out the other streetcar, IT 415, as the second mainline train, and he will give me unofficial training on it. That's another thing I've been wanting to learn for a year now, but they haven't offered the official training (the official electric training guy was home with his sick wife (who died a month or so ago), so I don't blame him, but there really should be more than one training guy).

Now I can go to another activity on Sunday that I was forgoing to work the PCC cars.

David

Miserable old git
Patiently waiting for the asteroid with my name on it.

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