.... the fact is E@H is one of the best run DC projects out there and most likely to not waste voluteer resources.
Absolutely. :-) :-)
It's worth emphasising Benjamin's point that the choice of side activity, that is PALFA, is not just some arbitrary filler job. The discovery of unknown binary systems is quite relevant to the task of understanding, from another viewpoint, these fascinating objects. It could only boost GW astronomy.
Quote:
[aside]
Maybe, and just maybe, it could be more than just population-type/general-behaviour learning but matching results to specific sources. One day. Hope springs eternal .... :-)
[/aside]
As William and Caroline Herschel demonstrated, just looking and seeking patterns brings enormous strides in knowledge. The 1987A supernovae event had a terrific fluke when neutrino detector tanks, built for another purpose, happened to light up also. Plus we wouldn't have known it's progenitor ( Sandeluk ) had it not been mapped earlier. Gamma ray astronomy kicked off with nuclear weapons monitoring from space! If you examine the detailed research on the centre of our galaxy, where a black hole surely lurks, our understanding of it rests upon detailed information from right across the spectrum.
Quote:
[aside]
You could even say the Hubble ( tongue firmly in cheek ) continued along the line of spy satellite development. A civilian KH-11. Hey guys, I'm bored with reading number plates today, let's point it away from the Earth!
[/aside]
The published data and conclusions from our science runs indicate the GW search has placed upper limits ( how big and how far away type of questions ) on what could be out there generating waves. No doubt astrophysicists have taken up these inputs, and hence in turn could trickle into another branch of activity or thought. Who knows. Personally I reckon it's a hoot to be involved, however obtusely, in this project ..... it really is cutting edge stuff.
So nature tends to reward persistent enquiry. Or exhaust the impatient! :-)
Cheers, Mike.
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
To inform people about a temporary/nifty/needed/ change/addition in the project is IMHO absolutely necessary and important, isn't it ?
And *that* is the point I'm worrying about.
Quote:
So, the findings of the binary pulsar search might have implications for GW detections as well and are closely related to them.
Fine but what could prevent the volunteers from being exploited by the argument "might have implications" ?
The point is taken, and quite well put, but what can I say? :-)
I guess it depends on one's level of trust of the project. It either passes muster or it doesn't at an individual level. There simply isn't the time, the resources, the people ( or the urge likely ) to engage in the type of detailed interaction per volunteer that you outline. By definition a project seeking volunteer assistance just doesn't have that available. :-)
Please rest assured that exploitation has never been the intention, or the result, of any decision made by project managers that I'm aware of.
Cheers, Mike.
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
These are the news items we posted about the upcoming new search (in chronological order):
* Dec 13, 2008 (containing links to the associated forum threads
1 and 2)
* Mar 25, 2009 (containing links to the associated press releases de and en
We appreciate every single volunteer's contribution to our scientific goals, and so far we've strived to be as open and elaborate as possible about what's happening "in the background". Help us to improve our project: what else could we have done, in your opinion, to inform our volunteers more adequately?
If I may make a suggestion, I suggest sending a "form letter" out to the participants, describing any changes to or new directions the project is taking. I'm assuming that this is possible as there is a "Is it OK for Einstein@Home and your team (if any) to email you?" question in the Einstein@Home website preferences that can be answered "yes". I'm assuming that if some individuals have it set for "no", they are relinquishing their control in that aspect. There is a certain amount of individual responsibility and thoughtfulness that needs to be realized and taken when making the decision of committing to distributed computing. The project should not have to "hold the hand" of the participant IMO.
If I may make a suggestion, I suggest sending a "form letter" out to the participants, describing any changes to or new directions the project is taking.
Yes, I'd expect such a news letter for the made changes/additions especially b/c the project news do not clearly make a statement to the relationship between GW and ABP. Currently the term "It also searches for" is used which can be misunderstood, or ?
If I may make a suggestion, I suggest sending a "form letter" out to the participants, describing any changes to or new directions the project is taking.
Yes, I'd expect such a news letter for the made changes/additions especially b/c the project news do not clearly make a statement to the relationship between GW and ABP. Currently the term "It also searches for" is used which can be misunderstood, or ?
After conferring with project management, I can firmly state that your expectations raised here will not be met.
Cheers, Mike.
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
On the other hand, you're probably attracting new people like me who saw the pulsar searching press release and signed up for E@H.
No doubt! Nice to hear that. :-)
Quote:
Of course I'm a rare bird pulsar weenie (did my Ph.D. in 1991 on millisecond pulsars with data from Arecibo, so this hit really close to home).
Please do tell us of your research, if you are so inclined ... :-)
[ Now, let me guess. Someone is going to ask if one can do PALFA, but not the GW units .... :-) ]
What scientist can resist pontificating on his work? My thesis is titled, "High Precision Timing of Millisecond Pulsars" and my advisor was the fabulous Joe Taylor (of PSR 1913+16 fame). In fact, one of my first papers was the first use of the timing residuals results from PSR B1937+21 to constrain the cosmic GW background (Stinebring, Ryba, Taylor, and Romani, 1990, Phys Rev Lett, 65, p. 285). I also studied a couple other binary millisecond pulsars (B1855+09 and B1957+20), and was involved in some of the early discussions of developing a pulsar timing array to look for gravitational waves.
Now I do a lot of defense R&D, primarily with GPS (another great technology) but I'll always have a spot for pulsar research. Maybe I'll buy a Nvidia board just to help out E@H/PALFA (games? you mean to tell me they're for games?).
Also I'm a proud member of the Luxuriant Flowing Hair Club for Scientists.
"Better is the enemy of the good." - Voltaire (should be memorized by every requirements lead)
What scientist can resist pontificating on his work? My thesis is titled, "High Precision Timing of Millisecond Pulsars" and my advisor was the fabulous Joe Taylor (of PSR 1913+16 fame). In fact, one of my first papers was the first use of the timing residuals results from PSR B1937+21 to constrain the cosmic GW background (Stinebring, Ryba, Taylor, and Romani, 1990, Phys Rev Lett, 65, p. 285). I also studied a couple other binary millisecond pulsars (B1855+09 and B1957+20), and was involved in some of the early discussions of developing a pulsar timing array to look for gravitational waves.
This is outstanding stuff. I will definitely track down your references quoted. I gather 'timing residuals' is perhaps a slight understatement, what with the pulsar spindown curves so doggone precisely matching GR predictions. :-)
Thank you for sharing that, and please don't be shy to throw your intellectual weight around in discussions ..... :-)
Quote:
Now I do a lot of defense R&D, primarily with GPS (another great technology) but I'll always have a spot for pulsar research. Maybe I'll buy a Nvidia board just to help out E@H/PALFA (games? you mean to tell me they're for games?).
Should I take up NVidia shares perhaps? :-)
Quote:
Also I'm a proud member of the Luxuriant Flowing Hair Club for Scientists.
A clear correlate ( grovel ... tug forelock ... grovel ) of intellectual prowess. :-) :-)
Cheers, Mike.
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
On the other hand, you're probably attracting new people like me who saw the pulsar searching press release and signed up for E@H.
No doubt! Nice to hear that. :-)
Quote:
Of course I'm a rare bird pulsar weenie (did my Ph.D. in 1991 on millisecond pulsars with data from Arecibo, so this hit really close to home).
Please do tell us of your research, if you are so inclined ... :-)
[ Now, let me guess. Someone is going to ask if one can do PALFA, but not the GW units .... :-) ]
What scientist can resist pontificating on his work? My thesis is titled, "High Precision Timing of Millisecond Pulsars" and my advisor was the fabulous Joe Taylor (of PSR 1913+16 fame). In fact, one of my first papers was the first use of the timing residuals results from PSR B1937+21 to constrain the cosmic GW background (Stinebring, Ryba, Taylor, and Romani, 1990, Phys Rev Lett, 65, p. 285). I also studied a couple other binary millisecond pulsars (B1855+09 and B1957+20), and was involved in some of the early discussions of developing a pulsar timing array to look for gravitational waves.
Now I do a lot of defense R&D, primarily with GPS (another great technology) but I'll always have a spot for pulsar research. Maybe I'll buy a Nvidia board just to help out E@H/PALFA (games? you mean to tell me they're for games?).
Also I'm a proud member of the Luxuriant Flowing Hair Club for Scientists.
Hi Marty! I'm excited to see you here ... we had some contact early in the 90s (not sure if this was direct or via Joe Taylor) when Rob Caldwell and I were working on gravitational-wave limits on cosmic string networks from millisecond pulsar timing.
Are you aware of the big efforts currently underway to build large pulsar timing arrays?
RE: .... the fact is E@H is
)
Absolutely. :-) :-)
It's worth emphasising Benjamin's point that the choice of side activity, that is PALFA, is not just some arbitrary filler job. The discovery of unknown binary systems is quite relevant to the task of understanding, from another viewpoint, these fascinating objects. It could only boost GW astronomy.
As William and Caroline Herschel demonstrated, just looking and seeking patterns brings enormous strides in knowledge. The 1987A supernovae event had a terrific fluke when neutrino detector tanks, built for another purpose, happened to light up also. Plus we wouldn't have known it's progenitor ( Sandeluk ) had it not been mapped earlier. Gamma ray astronomy kicked off with nuclear weapons monitoring from space! If you examine the detailed research on the centre of our galaxy, where a black hole surely lurks, our understanding of it rests upon detailed information from right across the spectrum.
The published data and conclusions from our science runs indicate the GW search has placed upper limits ( how big and how far away type of questions ) on what could be out there generating waves. No doubt astrophysicists have taken up these inputs, and hence in turn could trickle into another branch of activity or thought. Who knows. Personally I reckon it's a hoot to be involved, however obtusely, in this project ..... it really is cutting edge stuff.
So nature tends to reward persistent enquiry. Or exhaust the impatient! :-)
Cheers, Mike.
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
To inform people about a
)
To inform people about a temporary/nifty/needed/ change/addition in the project is IMHO absolutely necessary and important, isn't it ?
And *that* is the point I'm worrying about.
Fine but what could prevent the volunteers from being exploited by the argument "might have implications" ?
RE: To inform people about
)
The point is taken, and quite well put, but what can I say? :-)
I guess it depends on one's level of trust of the project. It either passes muster or it doesn't at an individual level. There simply isn't the time, the resources, the people ( or the urge likely ) to engage in the type of detailed interaction per volunteer that you outline. By definition a project seeking volunteer assistance just doesn't have that available. :-)
Please rest assured that exploitation has never been the intention, or the result, of any decision made by project managers that I'm aware of.
Cheers, Mike.
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
Hi Toralf, RE: To
)
Hi Toralf,
Absolutely, and that's why I can't follow your argument. Please have a look at the project news:
Current: https://einstein.phys.uwm.edu
Archive: https://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/old_news.php
These are the news items we posted about the upcoming new search (in chronological order):
1 and 2)
* Mar 25, 2009 (containing links to the associated press releases de and en
We appreciate every single volunteer's contribution to our scientific goals, and so far we've strived to be as open and elaborate as possible about what's happening "in the background". Help us to improve our project: what else could we have done, in your opinion, to inform our volunteers more adequately?
Cheers,
Oliver
Einstein@Home Project
If I may make a suggestion, I
)
If I may make a suggestion, I suggest sending a "form letter" out to the participants, describing any changes to or new directions the project is taking. I'm assuming that this is possible as there is a "Is it OK for Einstein@Home and your team (if any) to email you?" question in the Einstein@Home website preferences that can be answered "yes". I'm assuming that if some individuals have it set for "no", they are relinquishing their control in that aspect. There is a certain amount of individual responsibility and thoughtfulness that needs to be realized and taken when making the decision of committing to distributed computing. The project should not have to "hold the hand" of the participant IMO.
RE: If I may make a
)
Yes, I'd expect such a news letter for the made changes/additions especially b/c the project news do not clearly make a statement to the relationship between GW and ABP. Currently the term "It also searches for" is used which can be misunderstood, or ?
RE: RE: If I may make a
)
After conferring with project management, I can firmly state that your expectations raised here will not be met.
Cheers, Mike.
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
RE: RE: On the other
)
What scientist can resist pontificating on his work? My thesis is titled, "High Precision Timing of Millisecond Pulsars" and my advisor was the fabulous Joe Taylor (of PSR 1913+16 fame). In fact, one of my first papers was the first use of the timing residuals results from PSR B1937+21 to constrain the cosmic GW background (Stinebring, Ryba, Taylor, and Romani, 1990, Phys Rev Lett, 65, p. 285). I also studied a couple other binary millisecond pulsars (B1855+09 and B1957+20), and was involved in some of the early discussions of developing a pulsar timing array to look for gravitational waves.
Now I do a lot of defense R&D, primarily with GPS (another great technology) but I'll always have a spot for pulsar research. Maybe I'll buy a Nvidia board just to help out E@H/PALFA (games? you mean to tell me they're for games?).
Also I'm a proud member of the Luxuriant Flowing Hair Club for Scientists.
"Better is the enemy of the good." - Voltaire (should be memorized by every requirements lead)
RE: What scientist can
)
This is outstanding stuff. I will definitely track down your references quoted. I gather 'timing residuals' is perhaps a slight understatement, what with the pulsar spindown curves so doggone precisely matching GR predictions. :-)
Thank you for sharing that, and please don't be shy to throw your intellectual weight around in discussions ..... :-)
Should I take up NVidia shares perhaps? :-)
A clear correlate ( grovel ... tug forelock ... grovel ) of intellectual prowess. :-) :-)
Cheers, Mike.
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
RE: RE: RE: On the
)
Hi Marty! I'm excited to see you here ... we had some contact early in the 90s (not sure if this was direct or via Joe Taylor) when Rob Caldwell and I were working on gravitational-wave limits on cosmic string networks from millisecond pulsar timing.
Are you aware of the big efforts currently underway to build large pulsar timing arrays?
Cheers,
Bruce
Director, Einstein@Home