There is an inquiry in Sardinia about the death of a twenty-odd shepherds near the Salto di Quirra firing range where depleted uranium bullets and warheads may have been used. But I think judges and lawyers think only in term of radioactivity.They should also be aware of the chemical effects you mention.
Tullio
Exactly. I'd expect they'd have a hard time running with proof of the radiation aspect, simply because it ain't happening. Well, K40 in your house bricks or cosmic rays would likely light up the detector far more. U238 has a half-life of the order of half the age of the universe, so while long lived that also means very inactive in our life times. Some nuclear critics ( eg. The Jane Fonda School of Nuclear Engineering ) often talk of the dangerous activity of short lived isotopes ( correct ), but conveniently attribute to those same isotopes the half-life of the stable variant ( wrong ). Meaning you can't be both dangerous in the short term and not transmute in the long term. There is such a thing as conservation of mass/energy. So the guys in Japan who recently burnt their feet in a radioactive puddle had a problem with the quick & bright stuff like actinium or protactinium or radium ( note the names ), not the slow & dull stuff. Radioactivity is not magic!
I'd expect the shepherds were living there locally for some time, as shepherds do. But they could have been ingesting local food especially, that has concentrated the U238 at each step up the food chain - of which they are at the top. Heavy metals have this character in eco-systems, the living beings accumulate/sequester it in their tissues and possibly only return it to the soil or water upon death. But if something else eats it before that degradation, then it is passed on ....
'Depleted' refers to the diminished fraction of radioactive/fissile U235 component, not the way more stable U238. So you process/refine the ore ( eg. Manhattan project ) to get the bomb grade stuff, then the relatively nuclear inert 'left overs' one can use for it's physical/material properties ie. a hard and dense metal. Thus depleted uranium could well be far less radioactive than the input material before isotopic separation. Which is why you were separating in the first place. [ If you throw the right sort of neutron at U238 you'll get Plutonium, but no chain reaction ].
Cheers, Mike.
( edit ) Shepherds who eat the lamb that drank the milk from the ewe that ate the grass growing in the soil that .... ??
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
I understand that there is an irrational fear of radiation just like most people have with wildlife. I find that there seems to be two camps in general. Those with fear and those that say there is nothing to worry about. The media plays with both sides and the proper message does not get out and that's to treat radioactive materials with respect.
I think nuclear is the best way to go for supplying the world's energy needs but, as Rod has alluded to, competent oversight and comprehensive controls is definitely warranted.
Really it is not as complicated as that .. Its just to live free in moderation with choice..
There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot. - Aldo Leopold
Yesterday I spoke with a long time friend who has 'escaped' Tokyo with his family, to ride out the crisis here DownUnda. The part of the economy he would normally contribute to is currently inactive ( graphic design ), so he has sensibly taken the option to return to Australia ( he's a citizen ) and avoid further risk meantime.
Apart from revealing the fairly scary events he and his family endured, he tells me that the nuclear plant operator ( TECO ? ) is under all sorts of scrutiny now, most immediately for falsifying safety reports as a chronic/endemic habit, but also for essentially 'talking through their bottoms' - shall we politely say - on the risk assessment for tsunamis.
A good instance of that assessment is historical data. Some tombstones were found way inland from their coastal origin. Over the years diggings for various reasons have unearthed them. A tombstone gives you a place and a time of origin you see, plus the physical attributes ( size, weight ... ) won't have changed alot since circa 990 AD or whenever. Hence one can do some fairly straight forward calculations to estimate pretty well the energy of the wave. That then gives you the wave height at the time of impact with the shoreline. Put simply the conclusions of that 'risk assessment' were ridiculously optimistic, and in the direction of benefit to a cheaper barrier design - because 5m is way lower than 13m, say. Sigh .....
Cheers, Mike.
( edit ) Tepco
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
I think nuclear is the best way to go for supplying the world's energy needs but, as Rod has alluded to, competent oversight and comprehensive controls is definitely warranted.
Really it is not as complicated as that .. Its just to live free in moderation with choice..
Oops, I must have misunderstood your postings. I apologise.
The Messina earthquake/tsunami of 1908 made a hundred thousand victims. Yet the Berlusconi government plans to build a suspended bridge across the Messina Strait, which is a highly seismic zone. No comment.
Tullio
I think nuclear is the best way to go for supplying the world's energy needs but, as Rod has alluded to, competent oversight and comprehensive controls is definitely warranted.
Really it is not as complicated as that .. Its just to live free in moderation with choice..
Oops, I must have misunderstood your postings. I apologise.
I am the one who should apologize erik.. My remark was with tongue in cheek and sarcastic..
There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot. - Aldo Leopold
I think nuclear is the best way to go for supplying the world's energy needs but, as Rod has alluded to, competent oversight and comprehensive controls is definitely warranted.
Really it is not as complicated as that .. Its just to live free in moderation with choice..
Oops, I must have misunderstood your postings. I apologise.
I am the one who should apologize erik.. My remark was with tongue in cheek and sarcastic..
Reading forums, it's hard to distinguish tone and nuance sometimes, at least for me. No worries.
RE: There is an inquiry in
)
Exactly. I'd expect they'd have a hard time running with proof of the radiation aspect, simply because it ain't happening. Well, K40 in your house bricks or cosmic rays would likely light up the detector far more. U238 has a half-life of the order of half the age of the universe, so while long lived that also means very inactive in our life times. Some nuclear critics ( eg. The Jane Fonda School of Nuclear Engineering ) often talk of the dangerous activity of short lived isotopes ( correct ), but conveniently attribute to those same isotopes the half-life of the stable variant ( wrong ). Meaning you can't be both dangerous in the short term and not transmute in the long term. There is such a thing as conservation of mass/energy. So the guys in Japan who recently burnt their feet in a radioactive puddle had a problem with the quick & bright stuff like actinium or protactinium or radium ( note the names ), not the slow & dull stuff. Radioactivity is not magic!
I'd expect the shepherds were living there locally for some time, as shepherds do. But they could have been ingesting local food especially, that has concentrated the U238 at each step up the food chain - of which they are at the top. Heavy metals have this character in eco-systems, the living beings accumulate/sequester it in their tissues and possibly only return it to the soil or water upon death. But if something else eats it before that degradation, then it is passed on ....
'Depleted' refers to the diminished fraction of radioactive/fissile U235 component, not the way more stable U238. So you process/refine the ore ( eg. Manhattan project ) to get the bomb grade stuff, then the relatively nuclear inert 'left overs' one can use for it's physical/material properties ie. a hard and dense metal. Thus depleted uranium could well be far less radioactive than the input material before isotopic separation. Which is why you were separating in the first place. [ If you throw the right sort of neutron at U238 you'll get Plutonium, but no chain reaction ].
Cheers, Mike.
( edit ) Shepherds who eat the lamb that drank the milk from the ewe that ate the grass growing in the soil that .... ??
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
I understand that there is an
)
I understand that there is an irrational fear of radiation just like most people have with wildlife. I find that there seems to be two camps in general. Those with fear and those that say there is nothing to worry about. The media plays with both sides and the proper message does not get out and that's to treat radioactive materials with respect.
Speaking of heavy metals.. Mercury Goods Ban Proposed
Edit.. I find that this irrational fear does not include fire.. Hmm... Look at the respect it gets..
There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot. - Aldo Leopold
Some of the fallout.. No pun
)
Some of the fallout.. No pun intended seriously
Japan Crisis as Agricultural Crisis
There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot. - Aldo Leopold
Sardinian sheep milk fromage
)
Sardinian sheep milk fromage is very tasteful and has less fat than fromage made with cow milk. Also Sardinian wine is very good. Cheers.
Tullio
RE: I think nuclear is the
)
Really it is not as complicated as that .. Its just to live free in moderation with choice..
There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot. - Aldo Leopold
Yesterday I spoke with a long
)
Yesterday I spoke with a long time friend who has 'escaped' Tokyo with his family, to ride out the crisis here DownUnda. The part of the economy he would normally contribute to is currently inactive ( graphic design ), so he has sensibly taken the option to return to Australia ( he's a citizen ) and avoid further risk meantime.
Apart from revealing the fairly scary events he and his family endured, he tells me that the nuclear plant operator ( TECO ? ) is under all sorts of scrutiny now, most immediately for falsifying safety reports as a chronic/endemic habit, but also for essentially 'talking through their bottoms' - shall we politely say - on the risk assessment for tsunamis.
A good instance of that assessment is historical data. Some tombstones were found way inland from their coastal origin. Over the years diggings for various reasons have unearthed them. A tombstone gives you a place and a time of origin you see, plus the physical attributes ( size, weight ... ) won't have changed alot since circa 990 AD or whenever. Hence one can do some fairly straight forward calculations to estimate pretty well the energy of the wave. That then gives you the wave height at the time of impact with the shoreline. Put simply the conclusions of that 'risk assessment' were ridiculously optimistic, and in the direction of benefit to a cheaper barrier design - because 5m is way lower than 13m, say. Sigh .....
Cheers, Mike.
( edit ) Tepco
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
RE: RE: I think nuclear
)
Oops, I must have misunderstood your postings. I apologise.
The Messina
)
The Messina earthquake/tsunami of 1908 made a hundred thousand victims. Yet the Berlusconi government plans to build a suspended bridge across the Messina Strait, which is a highly seismic zone. No comment.
Tullio
RE: RE: RE: I think
)
I am the one who should apologize erik.. My remark was with tongue in cheek and sarcastic..
There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot. - Aldo Leopold
RE: RE: RE: RE: I
)
Reading forums, it's hard to distinguish tone and nuance sometimes, at least for me. No worries.