I understand what you're saying, but I disagree on a number of things in that statement. I do feel that S5R2 is at a "beta" level. I cannot say that it is "alpha" / "pre-beta". The issue with the credit level needs to be taken out of the discussion as well. That isn't determined by the application that you and I have. Credits are a distinctly seperate, although related, issue.
A poor choice of words on my part. I agree with you on beta stage. Credits not withstanding, I just lumped all the problems I am/was experiencing together.
After sometime I terminated the first unit with S5R2.
I need a long time, about 12 hours (51.900 sec). So I needed about 5,4 times
more than normal. So I am a little bit disapointed that I get only 113 points.
The double of the normal units.
I've just started my first S5R2 WU. It's behaving like Rosetta, i.e. the "time remaining" increments along with the CPU time. Is this to be expected. The estimated time for the WU was around 12 hours. It's done 3.33 hours (16%) but the "to completion" time is showing 11:17:43...all OK? I think not!!
On all 3 of my systems the DCF has gone up between s5r1 and s5r2. That is to say that at the transition point your ETA for completing a WU is too low. Boinc appears to be adjusting this value during the running of a single WU and is adjusting the ETAs as a result. MY PCs have all stabilized around the new correct value after a half dozenish WUs.
Thanks for the heads-up Dan, I'll keep an eye on things...I think I need some more powerful hardware, though...
That's the "half-empty" view. The "half-full" view is that the other projects were not giving enough credit...
Quote:
tracking down the handful of rare bugs is a higher priority.
Again, given the fact that these began happening immediately upon beginning with S5R2, it suggests to me, as a software developer who has done quite a bit of testing both in my line of work and as an end-user, that there was an insufficient testing phase for this project. If they had posted it to the beta page and came to this forum and asked people to test it, the crashes and severe performance penalties would've been found immediately.
Additionally, I think there are more crashes than what you're aware of. Do I know that for sure? Nope. Can I prove it? Nope. It's just a gut feeling.
Arion: the 40% drops on your 2nd and 3rd machine are about what I saw with my two A64x2 machines. The much larger drop on your first machine makes me think Bruce didn't fix all of the first round of WUs which were issued which much lower credit amounts. One of the moderators probably should send a ping about this his way.
Einstien was giving ~1/3rd too much credit. The s5r2 app is dropping results by about 25% on intel, 40% on AMD. The spread is due to the app using compiled code instead of hand tweaked asm for the hot loops and intels on chip optimizer doing a better job with the output. Eventually the s5r2 app should be optimized the same way as the s5r1 app was and the CPU type difference closed. There are occasional reports of people not having the new app work yet, tracking down the handful of rare bugs is a higher priority.
On my X2 4800+ system I have had completed times range from 5 hours to 24 hours and beyond with the new S5R2 units. I saw the initial adjustment go from 77 to I think 170 (not sure right now) but I saw the change made on a newer batch of units. I have no problem with being granted a lower credit for the initial units. I can live with a lot of things. As to the 1/3 more credits being given for workunits, I really don't know whether or not that is true because I don't shop around for credit monster projects. As it has been stated in a number of posts by other volunteers as well as Bruce I will take everyone's word for it. And I don't really have a problem with Einstein trying to get in line with other projects. I do question that if everyone is being put on a level playing field in that regard, then why are overall daily averages going backwards? I would expect a slower curve to move upwards, not a speedy retreat downward.
As you may notice in the message I posted with my average times between all three systems, I am aware that I get the same credit for the same work, regardless how long it takes. That is not an issue I have.
That's the "half-empty" view. The "half-full" view is that the other projects were not giving enough credit...
...and never have. ;-)
I agree it would probably be better to run a seperate Beta project, but that would entail a significant increase in backend resources which just may not be available.
OTOH, the team has demonstrated in the past they are on the case. So I don't think the basic operational problems will persist for too long if history is any indication.
In any event I'm willing to tough it out for now in that regard. ;-)
I agree it would probably be better to run a seperate Beta project, but that would entail a significant increase in backend resources which just may not be available.
Perhaps not, but in the future it should be done that way. If it cannot be done that way, then the user base should be informed via email to their address on record as to what is going to be happening and why it is happening.
Agreed, and I'm always in favor of more input from the team.
At the risk of being accused of being an EAH 'cheerleader' though, I offer as a mitigating factor in the current situation that Dr. Allen moving to Germany so close to this particular transition must have thrown a wrench or ten into works. ;-)
If you follow through to the detailled pages on BOINCStats you'll find:
You can see the code format by clicking 'reply' to this message: but if you plan to use it permanently, please put the code into the 'signature' section of your forum preferences (it's much kinder for dial-up users: they - or anyone else - can filter the images out so the pages load quicker).
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.....Douglas Adams
I'm still trying to decide what I'm going to do with the 3 S5R2 units that I suspended... I need to do something with them in fairness to the other person who received a download...and in fairness to the project...
I finished my R2, quit the project and waiting for better times.
And I'm desperately trying to make my Debian cooperate with the cheap trashy modem my new ISP provided... as that host is an AMD, I'd really prefer running Linux, but it simply won't let me go online and get BOINC and a few WUs... Murphy's law, sth like this happens in the worst possible moment in the worst possible way (if the host in question was my notebook, I could just take it to Uni with me and upload there, but no, the notebook is an Intel and it's the desktop which has problems...). I'm still trying not to let Einstein lose crunching time but unless I manage to go online via PPPOE and without DHCP really soon (which I've never done before as my former ISP provided a proper router, which unfortunately doesn't work together with the new VoIp solution) I'll have a hard time keeping that promise.
As for the current run's "beta" state... I don't know more than anyone else about the internal decision-making, of course, but I prefer the current state of things to not getting any Einstein work at all. This is simply my favorite project (by far) and has always been reliable, so a few issues won't be enough to drive me away ;-) Of course, I'd gladly participate in an organized beta test, too, if there was one for future runs. But as this run was started in a hurry and the team was probably delayed by all the server trouble earlier this year, I think it's quite understandable that the app couldn't be tested as much as would have been ideal...
RE: I understand what
)
A poor choice of words on my part. I agree with you on beta stage. Credits not withstanding, I just lumped all the problems I am/was experiencing together.
Arion
RE: RE: RE: RE: Afte
)
Thanks for the heads-up Dan, I'll keep an eye on things...I think I need some more powerful hardware, though...
RE: Einstien was giving
)
That's the "half-empty" view. The "half-full" view is that the other projects were not giving enough credit...
Again, given the fact that these began happening immediately upon beginning with S5R2, it suggests to me, as a software developer who has done quite a bit of testing both in my line of work and as an end-user, that there was an insufficient testing phase for this project. If they had posted it to the beta page and came to this forum and asked people to test it, the crashes and severe performance penalties would've been found immediately.
Additionally, I think there are more crashes than what you're aware of. Do I know that for sure? Nope. Can I prove it? Nope. It's just a gut feeling.
RE: Arion: the 40% drops
)
On my X2 4800+ system I have had completed times range from 5 hours to 24 hours and beyond with the new S5R2 units. I saw the initial adjustment go from 77 to I think 170 (not sure right now) but I saw the change made on a newer batch of units. I have no problem with being granted a lower credit for the initial units. I can live with a lot of things. As to the 1/3 more credits being given for workunits, I really don't know whether or not that is true because I don't shop around for credit monster projects. As it has been stated in a number of posts by other volunteers as well as Bruce I will take everyone's word for it. And I don't really have a problem with Einstein trying to get in line with other projects. I do question that if everyone is being put on a level playing field in that regard, then why are overall daily averages going backwards? I would expect a slower curve to move upwards, not a speedy retreat downward.
As you may notice in the message I posted with my average times between all three systems, I am aware that I get the same credit for the same work, regardless how long it takes. That is not an issue I have.
RE: RE: Einstien was
)
...and never have. ;-)
I agree it would probably be better to run a seperate Beta project, but that would entail a significant increase in backend resources which just may not be available.
OTOH, the team has demonstrated in the past they are on the case. So I don't think the basic operational problems will persist for too long if history is any indication.
In any event I'm willing to tough it out for now in that regard. ;-)
Alinator
RE: I agree it would
)
Perhaps not, but in the future it should be done that way. If it cannot be done that way, then the user base should be informed via email to their address on record as to what is going to be happening and why it is happening.
Agreed, and I'm always in
)
Agreed, and I'm always in favor of more input from the team.
At the risk of being accused of being an EAH 'cheerleader' though, I offer as a mitigating factor in the current situation that Dr. Allen moving to Germany so close to this particular transition must have thrown a wrench or ten into works. ;-)
Alinator
RE: RE: BTW, What is the
)
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.....Douglas Adams
RE: I'm still trying to
)
I finished my R2, quit the project and waiting for better times.
"souls ain't born, souls don't die"
And I'm desperately trying to
)
And I'm desperately trying to make my Debian cooperate with the cheap trashy modem my new ISP provided... as that host is an AMD, I'd really prefer running Linux, but it simply won't let me go online and get BOINC and a few WUs... Murphy's law, sth like this happens in the worst possible moment in the worst possible way (if the host in question was my notebook, I could just take it to Uni with me and upload there, but no, the notebook is an Intel and it's the desktop which has problems...). I'm still trying not to let Einstein lose crunching time but unless I manage to go online via PPPOE and without DHCP really soon (which I've never done before as my former ISP provided a proper router, which unfortunately doesn't work together with the new VoIp solution) I'll have a hard time keeping that promise.
As for the current run's "beta" state... I don't know more than anyone else about the internal decision-making, of course, but I prefer the current state of things to not getting any Einstein work at all. This is simply my favorite project (by far) and has always been reliable, so a few issues won't be enough to drive me away ;-) Of course, I'd gladly participate in an organized beta test, too, if there was one for future runs. But as this run was started in a hurry and the team was probably delayed by all the server trouble earlier this year, I think it's quite understandable that the app couldn't be tested as much as would have been ideal...