Hello all!
I just happened upon this thread as I was packing up an old Dell Dimension PII 450 to send back to Dell for recycling.
I felt inspired to install Xubuntu and SETI with the MMX optimized app for one last fling... first WU estimated time to completion - 67 hours!! Woo-hoo!!
I may look for a PIII 550 to upgrade per earlier posts- there is a certain appeal to running these old machines.
Does Einstein run more or less efficiently than SETI on such a pc? (Assuming optimized apps are used).
Thanks
Actually, Pentium II's lack SSE instruction sets, so they won't run the fastest Einstein apps. I only do an occasional run of Einstein work-units on my P-II for nostalgic reasons.
On the other hand. . .
The old Pentium II machines are still quite useful in other ways. For home or small office use, they'd make a dandy Samba server, or an IPCop firewall. They're also still sufficient to run office apps, or to surf the net, as long as you don't try to view any streaming video. And, thanks to Linux, you can still install a modern operating system on them.
Hello all!
I just happened upon this thread as I was packing up an old Dell Dimension PII 450 to send back to Dell for recycling.
I felt inspired to install Xubuntu and SETI with the MMX optimized app for one last fling... first WU estimated time to completion - 67 hours!! Woo-hoo!!
I may look for a PIII 550 to upgrade per earlier posts- there is a certain appeal to running these old machines.
Does Einstein run more or less efficiently than SETI on such a pc? (Assuming optimized apps are used).
Thanks
If a computer is running two or more projects then after each project has run 25 or more units, comparing the Duration Correction Factor's (DCF) should indicate which is the most efficient on that computer.
If a computer is running two or more projects then after each project has run 25 or more units, comparing the Duration Correction Factor's (DCF) should indicate which is the most efficient on that computer.
> 25 WU's @ 67 hours per = 69+ days x 2 projects = old, grey haired man :)
I will look into using it as a firewall perhaps...
Thanks
> 25 WU's @ 67 hours per = 69+ days x 2 projects = old, grey haired man :)
I will look into using it as a firewall perhaps...
Thanks
Alternatively, replace the slot 1 PII CPU with a PIII 550 Katmai (very cheap on ebay) and reflash with the latest BIOS if you get "unknown CPU" type complaints. You will then be able to run the SSE power app and your crunch time will drop significantly.
Also, if you hand tune the DCF to about the correct value before you start, you can cut dramatically, the requirement to run 25 tasks for stability to be achieved. I can get stability in around 3-5 tasks.
> 25 WU's @ 67 hours per = 69+ days x 2 projects = old, grey haired man :)
I will look into using it as a firewall perhaps...
Thanks
Alternatively, replace the slot 1 PII CPU with a PIII 550 Katmai (very cheap on ebay) and reflash with the latest BIOS if you get "unknown CPU" type complaints. You will then be able to run the SSE power app and your crunch time will drop significantly.
Also, if you hand tune the DCF to about the correct value before you start, you can cut dramatically, the requirement to run 25 tasks for stability to be achieved. I can get stability in around 3-5 tasks.
I bought a PIII 550 Katmai on ebay yesterday- dirt cheap- and an extra 128 RAM for the max 384MB... as I recall the BIOS is already A13...will switch to the SSE optimized app for the maximum warp speed and see what happens! :)
At about 58% complete it looks like the WU estimate of 67 hours is looking more like <50 hours with the MMX app...
I've tried more memory and it doesn't seem to increase the wu speed. I think the app is optimized to use mostly L1 & L2 cache.
A year or to ago I had a dedicated computer running eah with 64 meg. At some point they switched to a new app and it no longer worked so I installed another 64 meg. Memory is not a big deal unless you are using the computer for other work also.
IMHO sse is a big deal. I've retired all my non sse machines from eah work as not being worth the electricity usage. I think you'll really like the PIII with sse. Also PIII's seem to take overclocking gracefully.
I've tried more memory and it doesn't seem to increase the wu speed. I think the app is optimized to use mostly L1 & L2 cache.
A year or to ago I had a dedicated computer running eah with 64 meg. At some point they switched to a new app and it no longer worked so I installed another 64 meg. Memory is not a big deal unless you are using the computer for other work also.
IMHO sse is a big deal. I've retired all my non sse machines from eah work as not being worth the electricity usage. I think you'll really like the PIII with sse. Also PIII's seem to take overclocking gracefully.
Hello Joe:
It's kind of amazing to think these were state of the art pc's 8-9 years ago... down right pokey if not infuriatingly slow vs todays OC'd quads- how did we put up with it?!
My plan after this refurbish would be to switch over to Einstein and possibly use this pc at work for Thunderbird/Firefox and free up the quad for dedicated crunching... the extra memory can't hurt and the price was right...
>speaking of overclocking, any suggestions on goosing the PIII 550 a bit? How far can you push it? I haven't even checked the BIOS for any OC'ing options.
Thanks!
>>>speaking of overclocking, any suggestions on goosing the PIII 550 a bit? How >>far can you push it? I haven't even checked the BIOS for any OC'ing options.
My best over clocker is a PIII 550. It is running at 825 mhz. It is on a gigabyte 6vx7-4x motherboard and does not use a higher voltage or need any extra cooling. I haven't even come close to this % increase on any other machine, so it may be one of a kind.
I got the overclocking by using the dip switches on the mb - not through the bios. Depends on the mb and specific cpu I guess. I kept going to higher speeds until it became unstable and then backed off. (850 mhz was not stable.)
It is this computer: http://129.89.61.70/show_host_detail.php?hostid=496909
Most of my machines run at 5-10% overclocking with no voltage boost or extra cooling. I do have to blow the dust out once in a while.
I'd start with the mb manual to plan the best way to oc'ing. They are usually available from the mb manufacturer on line.
... Also PIII's seem to take overclocking gracefully.
Hello Joe:
Sorry to butt in here but Joe's statement about overclocking is true for Tualatin and Coppermine PIIIs bur not for Katmais. Intel did actually take the Katmai to 600MHz but it wasn't all that stable and it ran quite hot. There are vey few 600MHz Katmais around - an old server is your best option to find one. The core voltage for Katmais was 2.0V and the slot 1 Coppermines came in at about 1.65V so you cant drop a slot 1 coppermine into a mainboard designed for a PII Deschutes or PIII Katmai.
You can overclock the 500s or 550s a bit (5-10% in my experience) if you are lucky but not through any BIOS options, since there aren't any in the name brand machines I've played with. The best I've ever achieved was around 12% if I remember correctly. If your mainboard has a supported PLL (Phase Locked Loop) chip you can use programs like CPUFSB (google for it) to program the PLL to increase the FSB whilst running Windows. If your PLL is not one of the supported ones then you are strictly out of luck.
If you really like the thought of overclocking a "golden oldie", then up your sights a little to one of the "golden not so oldies" :-).
I reckon the current king of the "golden not so oldies" is the PIII Tualatin. Pick the Celeron with its 100MHz FSB. These have exactly the same L2 cache as the PIII Coppermines. The 1000, 1100, 1200, 1300MHz varieties are fairly easy to find very cheaply as complete systems at traditional computer auctions - not ebay. To overclock a Tualatin Celeron when there are no BIOS options (ie name brands like HP/Compaq or Dell), there is a very simple (1 minute) socket mod which will allow the chip to run at 133MHz instead of 100MHZ. So a Celeron 1000 runs automatically at 1333 and a Celeron 1100 runs automatically at 1466. In my experience, over 90% of Celeron 1000s and around 50% of Celeron 1100s will be quite stable under full load when so overclocked. The proportion would probably be even higher if something a bit better than the standard HSF with standard thermal compound was used. I've even seen the very odd 1200 that will run at 133FSB as well. This machine is a Celeron 1100 running at 1466 using the socket mod. It has been running this way for a long time without any problems.
Another good option is to get the faster (eg 1300) variety and overclock through the BIOS. Just this week 1 bought a batch of 20 Celeron 1300 boxes at a traditional auction for $5 each. They have no RAM or HDD but the mainboard is the Gigabyte GA-6IEML which has FSB setting options (1MHz steps) in the BIOS. There are also dividers to keep the PCI/AGP busses closer to spec. They make the perfect "golden oldie" crunching box because 2x128MB sticks of PC133 and a 4 - 10 Gig HD can be installed for very little extra cost these days and the CPU can be overclocked to around 1600MHz most of the time. At this speed they will outperform a 2.0GHz P4 and will be much cheaper to tun.
This is the first of the original batch of these machines that I bought around 6-8 months ago and put into production. It has been crunching without issue ever since. I just set the FSB to 120 (1560MHz total CPU speed) and it fired straight up. I put it into production, intending to come back later and test it out more fully, expecting that it may not be reliable. In fact it has been so reliable that I never got back to it and I'm quite reluctant to fiddle with it at all :-).
This is the latest machine I've fired up. Whilst I was very happy to get 120MHz FSB for the original ones and didn't push them any further, I've found that many of the more recent ones will run at around 128MHz if I take care to choose the RAM carefully. I've been surprised to find that the original PC133 RAM that these machines came with actually starts to give errors under full load around 115-120MHz. I always assumed it was the CPU since it was the only component that was overclocked. The RAM and mainboard should both be quite happy with anything up to 133MHz. Now I find that machines that used to fail beyond about 112-115MHz will go a lot further if I use RAM that has been tested at 133MHz with a PIII rather than a Celeron. So if a machine will boot up into Windows at 128MHz, I find it will also run at 100% load at 124 so that has become my new aiming point. This is exactly the situation with this latest machine.
So if you have an old PII/early PIII (particularly slot 1s) that you are considering pulling out of retirement to have a bit of fun with then please DON'I :-). Keep the RAM and HDD and throw the rest away. Go and buy a couple of Tualatin Celeron boxes and really have some fun. For less power, less heat and virtually no noise, you will have something with at least 2-3 times the RAC and better energy efficiency.
... Also PIII's seem to take overclocking gracefully.
Hello Joe:
Sorry to butt in here but Joe's statement about overclocking is true for Tualatin and Coppermine PIIIs bur not for Katmais. Intel did actually take the Katmai to 600MHz but it wasn't all that stable and it ran quite hot. There are vey few 600MHz Katmais around - an old server is your best option to find one. The core voltage for Katmais was 2.0V and the slot 1 Coppermines came in at about 1.65V so you cant drop a slot 1 coppermine into a mainboard designed for a PII Deschutes or PIII Katmai.
You can overclock the 500s or 550s a bit (5-10% in my experience) if you are lucky but not through any BIOS options, since there aren't any in the name brand machines I've played with. The best I've ever achieved was around 12% if I remember correctly. If your mainboard has a supported PLL (Phase Locked Loop) chip you can use programs like CPUFSB (google for it) to program the PLL to increase the FSB whilst running Windows. If your PLL is not one of the supported ones then you are strictly out of luck.
If you really like the thought of overclocking a "golden oldie", then up your sights a little to one of the "golden not so oldies" :-).
I reckon the current king of the "golden not so oldies" is the PIII Tualatin. Pick the Celeron with its 100MHz FSB. These have exactly the same L2 cache as the PIII Coppermines. The 1000, 1100, 1200, 1300MHz varieties are fairly easy to find very cheaply as complete systems at traditional computer auctions - not ebay. To overclock a Tualatin Celeron when there are no BIOS options (ie name brands like HP/Compaq or Dell), there is a very simple (1 minute) socket mod which will allow the chip to run at 133MHz instead of 100MHZ. So a Celeron 1000 runs automatically at 1333 and a Celeron 1100 runs automatically at 1466. In my experience, over 90% of Celeron 1000s and around 50% of Celeron 1100s will be quite stable under full load when so overclocked. The proportion would probably be even higher if something a bit better than the standard HSF with standard thermal compound was used. I've even seen the very odd 1200 that will run at 133FSB as well. This machine is a Celeron 1100 running at 1466 using the socket mod. It has been running this way for a long time without any problems.
Another good option is to get the faster (eg 1300) variety and overclock through the BIOS. Just this week 1 bought a batch of 20 Celeron 1300 boxes at a traditional auction for $5 each. They have no RAM or HDD but the mainboard is the Gigabyte GA-6IEML which has FSB setting options (1MHz steps) in the BIOS. There are also dividers to keep the PCI/AGP busses closer to spec. They make the perfect "golden oldie" crunching box because 2x128MB sticks of PC133 and a 4 - 10 Gig HD can be installed for very little extra cost these days and the CPU can be overclocked to around 1600MHz most of the time. At this speed they will outperform a 2.0GHz P4 and will be much cheaper to tun.
This is the first of the original batch of these machines that I bought around 6-8 months ago and put into production. It has been crunching without issue ever since. I just set the FSB to 120 (1560MHz total CPU speed) and it fired straight up. I put it into production, intending to come back later and test it out more fully, expecting that it may not be reliable. In fact it has been so reliable that I never got back to it and I'm quite reluctant to fiddle with it at all :-).
This is the latest machine I've fired up. Whilst I was very happy to get 120MHz FSB for the original ones and didn't push them any further, I've found that many of the more recent ones will run at around 128MHz if I take care to choose the RAM carefully. I've been surprised to find that the original PC133 RAM that these machines came with actually starts to give errors under full load around 115-120MHz. I always assumed it was the CPU since it was the only component that was overclocked. The RAM and mainboard should both be quite happy with anything up to 133MHz. Now I find that machines that used to fail beyond about 112-115MHz will go a lot further if I use RAM that has been tested at 133MHz with a PIII rather than a Celeron. So if a machine will boot up into Windows at 128MHz, I find it will also run at 100% load at 124 so that has become my new aiming point. This is exactly the situation with this latest machine.
So if you have an old PII/early PIII (particularly slot 1s) that you are considering pulling out of retirement to have a bit of fun with then please DON'I :-). Keep the RAM and HDD and throw the rest away. Go and buy a couple of Tualatin Celeron boxes and really have some fun. For less power, less heat and virtually no noise, you will have something with at least 2-3 times the RAC and better energy efficiency.
Gary:
Thanks for that great information.
I have found the following article -'Dell Dimension XPS R Processor Upgrade Information- compiled by Robert Hancock' http://www.roberthancock.com/dell/xpsrproc.htm
I did find an Iwill Slocket II and a 100MHz FSB PIII 700 Coppermine (looked but did not find a 100MHz FSB Coppermine PIII 1000) so just for the thrill of it I will try this conversion per the above article :)... I have the Dell so very little out of pocket expense to play a bit... maybe no crunching in it's future but Linux firewall at the very least...
Given the relatively cheap new build costs of the Q6600 quads and easy overclocking ( I have two G0 Q6600's running 24/7 at 3.6 GHz and one B3 at 3.3GHz, all on water) I will send my money in that direction vs buying up old parts for significantly less efficiency and crunching power.
Thanks
RE: Hello all! I just
)
Actually, Pentium II's lack SSE instruction sets, so they won't run the fastest Einstein apps. I only do an occasional run of Einstein work-units on my P-II for nostalgic reasons.
On the other hand. . .
The old Pentium II machines are still quite useful in other ways. For home or small office use, they'd make a dandy Samba server, or an IPCop firewall. They're also still sufficient to run office apps, or to surf the net, as long as you don't try to view any streaming video. And, thanks to Linux, you can still install a modern operating system on them.
RE: Hello all! I just
)
If a computer is running two or more projects then after each project has run 25 or more units, comparing the Duration Correction Factor's (DCF) should indicate which is the most efficient on that computer.
If a computer is running two
)
If a computer is running two or more projects then after each project has run 25 or more units, comparing the Duration Correction Factor's (DCF) should indicate which is the most efficient on that computer.
> 25 WU's @ 67 hours per = 69+ days x 2 projects = old, grey haired man :)
I will look into using it as a firewall perhaps...
Thanks
RE: > 25 WU's @ 67 hours
)
Alternatively, replace the slot 1 PII CPU with a PIII 550 Katmai (very cheap on ebay) and reflash with the latest BIOS if you get "unknown CPU" type complaints. You will then be able to run the SSE power app and your crunch time will drop significantly.
Also, if you hand tune the DCF to about the correct value before you start, you can cut dramatically, the requirement to run 25 tasks for stability to be achieved. I can get stability in around 3-5 tasks.
Cheers,
Gary.
RE: RE: > 25 WU's @ 67
)
I bought a PIII 550 Katmai on ebay yesterday- dirt cheap- and an extra 128 RAM for the max 384MB... as I recall the BIOS is already A13...will switch to the SSE optimized app for the maximum warp speed and see what happens! :)
At about 58% complete it looks like the WU estimate of 67 hours is looking more like <50 hours with the MMX app...
Hi, If this is a
)
Hi,
If this is a dedicated computer, don't worry about the memory. I have some dedicated machines running on 128 megs. e.g. http://129.89.61.70/show_host_detail.php?hostid=496909
I've tried more memory and it doesn't seem to increase the wu speed. I think the app is optimized to use mostly L1 & L2 cache.
A year or to ago I had a dedicated computer running eah with 64 meg. At some point they switched to a new app and it no longer worked so I installed another 64 meg. Memory is not a big deal unless you are using the computer for other work also.
IMHO sse is a big deal. I've retired all my non sse machines from eah work as not being worth the electricity usage. I think you'll really like the PIII with sse. Also PIII's seem to take overclocking gracefully.
Joe B
RE: Hi, If this is a
)
Hello Joe:
It's kind of amazing to think these were state of the art pc's 8-9 years ago... down right pokey if not infuriatingly slow vs todays OC'd quads- how did we put up with it?!
My plan after this refurbish would be to switch over to Einstein and possibly use this pc at work for Thunderbird/Firefox and free up the quad for dedicated crunching... the extra memory can't hurt and the price was right...
>speaking of overclocking, any suggestions on goosing the PIII 550 a bit? How far can you push it? I haven't even checked the BIOS for any OC'ing options.
Thanks!
>>>speaking of overclocking,
)
>>>speaking of overclocking, any suggestions on goosing the PIII 550 a bit? How >>far can you push it? I haven't even checked the BIOS for any OC'ing options.
My best over clocker is a PIII 550. It is running at 825 mhz. It is on a gigabyte 6vx7-4x motherboard and does not use a higher voltage or need any extra cooling. I haven't even come close to this % increase on any other machine, so it may be one of a kind.
I got the overclocking by using the dip switches on the mb - not through the bios. Depends on the mb and specific cpu I guess. I kept going to higher speeds until it became unstable and then backed off. (850 mhz was not stable.)
It is this computer:
http://129.89.61.70/show_host_detail.php?hostid=496909
Most of my machines run at 5-10% overclocking with no voltage boost or extra cooling. I do have to blow the dust out once in a while.
I'd start with the mb manual to plan the best way to oc'ing. They are usually available from the mb manufacturer on line.
Joe B
RE: RE: ... Also PIII's
)
Sorry to butt in here but Joe's statement about overclocking is true for Tualatin and Coppermine PIIIs bur not for Katmais. Intel did actually take the Katmai to 600MHz but it wasn't all that stable and it ran quite hot. There are vey few 600MHz Katmais around - an old server is your best option to find one. The core voltage for Katmais was 2.0V and the slot 1 Coppermines came in at about 1.65V so you cant drop a slot 1 coppermine into a mainboard designed for a PII Deschutes or PIII Katmai.
You can overclock the 500s or 550s a bit (5-10% in my experience) if you are lucky but not through any BIOS options, since there aren't any in the name brand machines I've played with. The best I've ever achieved was around 12% if I remember correctly. If your mainboard has a supported PLL (Phase Locked Loop) chip you can use programs like CPUFSB (google for it) to program the PLL to increase the FSB whilst running Windows. If your PLL is not one of the supported ones then you are strictly out of luck.
If you really like the thought of overclocking a "golden oldie", then up your sights a little to one of the "golden not so oldies" :-).
I reckon the current king of the "golden not so oldies" is the PIII Tualatin. Pick the Celeron with its 100MHz FSB. These have exactly the same L2 cache as the PIII Coppermines. The 1000, 1100, 1200, 1300MHz varieties are fairly easy to find very cheaply as complete systems at traditional computer auctions - not ebay. To overclock a Tualatin Celeron when there are no BIOS options (ie name brands like HP/Compaq or Dell), there is a very simple (1 minute) socket mod which will allow the chip to run at 133MHz instead of 100MHZ. So a Celeron 1000 runs automatically at 1333 and a Celeron 1100 runs automatically at 1466. In my experience, over 90% of Celeron 1000s and around 50% of Celeron 1100s will be quite stable under full load when so overclocked. The proportion would probably be even higher if something a bit better than the standard HSF with standard thermal compound was used. I've even seen the very odd 1200 that will run at 133FSB as well. This machine is a Celeron 1100 running at 1466 using the socket mod. It has been running this way for a long time without any problems.
Another good option is to get the faster (eg 1300) variety and overclock through the BIOS. Just this week 1 bought a batch of 20 Celeron 1300 boxes at a traditional auction for $5 each. They have no RAM or HDD but the mainboard is the Gigabyte GA-6IEML which has FSB setting options (1MHz steps) in the BIOS. There are also dividers to keep the PCI/AGP busses closer to spec. They make the perfect "golden oldie" crunching box because 2x128MB sticks of PC133 and a 4 - 10 Gig HD can be installed for very little extra cost these days and the CPU can be overclocked to around 1600MHz most of the time. At this speed they will outperform a 2.0GHz P4 and will be much cheaper to tun.
This is the first of the original batch of these machines that I bought around 6-8 months ago and put into production. It has been crunching without issue ever since. I just set the FSB to 120 (1560MHz total CPU speed) and it fired straight up. I put it into production, intending to come back later and test it out more fully, expecting that it may not be reliable. In fact it has been so reliable that I never got back to it and I'm quite reluctant to fiddle with it at all :-).
This is the latest machine I've fired up. Whilst I was very happy to get 120MHz FSB for the original ones and didn't push them any further, I've found that many of the more recent ones will run at around 128MHz if I take care to choose the RAM carefully. I've been surprised to find that the original PC133 RAM that these machines came with actually starts to give errors under full load around 115-120MHz. I always assumed it was the CPU since it was the only component that was overclocked. The RAM and mainboard should both be quite happy with anything up to 133MHz. Now I find that machines that used to fail beyond about 112-115MHz will go a lot further if I use RAM that has been tested at 133MHz with a PIII rather than a Celeron. So if a machine will boot up into Windows at 128MHz, I find it will also run at 100% load at 124 so that has become my new aiming point. This is exactly the situation with this latest machine.
So if you have an old PII/early PIII (particularly slot 1s) that you are considering pulling out of retirement to have a bit of fun with then please DON'I :-). Keep the RAM and HDD and throw the rest away. Go and buy a couple of Tualatin Celeron boxes and really have some fun. For less power, less heat and virtually no noise, you will have something with at least 2-3 times the RAC and better energy efficiency.
Cheers,
Gary.
RE: RE: RE: ... Also
)
Gary:
Thanks for that great information.
I have found the following article -'Dell Dimension XPS R Processor Upgrade Information- compiled by Robert Hancock'
http://www.roberthancock.com/dell/xpsrproc.htm
I did find an Iwill Slocket II and a 100MHz FSB PIII 700 Coppermine (looked but did not find a 100MHz FSB Coppermine PIII 1000) so just for the thrill of it I will try this conversion per the above article :)... I have the Dell so very little out of pocket expense to play a bit... maybe no crunching in it's future but Linux firewall at the very least...
Given the relatively cheap new build costs of the Q6600 quads and easy overclocking ( I have two G0 Q6600's running 24/7 at 3.6 GHz and one B3 at 3.3GHz, all on water) I will send my money in that direction vs buying up old parts for significantly less efficiency and crunching power.
Thanks