Uncle Albert's Cafe and Ǽ-Theory Bistro

Rod
Rod
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RE: RE: Thirdly,

Message 66590 in response to message 66589

Quote:
Quote:
Thirdly, causation has association as a prerequisite, but sufficiency and necessity are quite different concepts.

Cause and Effect.

Edit: I found you don't look at statistics for answers. You look at them to determine what you don't know.
As far as Skydiving.I would not skydive. There is enough risk associated to it for what I would get out of it (Having the crap scared out of me) no matter what the causation associated with the risk. Now if I was going down in a pile of flames uncontrollably. Strap Me Up:-)

I think some people called it common sense. :-)

Answers was a poor choice of words. Conclusions is more apt. If you want an interesting read on how some conclusions can be drawn from a dataset, take a look at Freakonomics . The scary part is the book is popular and people do draw conclusions from it and miss the point entirely.

There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot. - Aldo Leopold

Rod
Rod
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Economists Need Their Own

Economists Need Their Own Uncertainty Principle .

__________________________
Common Sense..:-)

There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot. - Aldo Leopold

Mike Hewson
Mike Hewson
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RE: As far as Skydiving.I

Message 66592 in response to message 66590

Quote:
As far as Skydiving.I would not skydive ...


Well there's the classic joke about perfectly good aeroplanes.....
The key language issue is something like the following - "in nearly all cases of death by parachute failure, the Sun rose in the Eastern sky that morning." This is the methodology of countless headlines, fear and hubris campaigns.

- true but utterly bland statement(s)

- suggests to the reader an inference by juxtaposition, but can be defended otherwise on literal grounds.

- generously does not mention the converse proposition "on those days when death by parachute failure did not occur, the Sun rose in the Eastern sky that morning."

- or indeed doesn't adequately encompass the entire truth - "on any given day, a death by parachute failure may or may not occur, the Sun rises in the East in either case."

I read Freakonomics a couple of years ago. My favorite piece was on the logic of drug dealing. As for economics generally - well yes, people do lie and obfuscate. The "unknown unknowns" are in the other guy's head! Given that money can be defined as 'delayed reciprocal gifting', then the trick ( for personal gain ) is to extend-deferment/diffuse-returns/degrade-value. You can analyse most transactions in that format, with banking the foremost example. :-)

Cheers, Mike.

I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...

... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal

Rod
Rod
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RE: The "unknown unknowns"

Message 66593 in response to message 66592

Quote:
The "unknown unknowns" are in the other guy's head!

..

When Rumsfeld said that, I knew exactly what he meant..:-)

There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot. - Aldo Leopold

Mike Hewson
Mike Hewson
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RE: RE: The "unknown

Message 66594 in response to message 66593

Quote:
Quote:
The "unknown unknowns" are in the other guy's head!

..

When Rumsfeld said that, I knew exactly what he meant..:-)


[sarcasm set to turbo]
We have a Royal Commission into last year's bush fires here in Victoria. And what a splendid outing for all the armchair experts it has been. None of whom, alas, had given any timely warning of what they now claim to have known with contemporaneous certainty. Nor had they attempted to intervene at the right moments with key advice on the day. Odd that. And a real shame considering what may have been averted .....
[/sarcasm set to turbo]

Gives the title 'consultant' a bad rep, I'm afraid. One chap who self-designated as a 'bushfire expert' had a beard down to his navel. Anyone who has ever worked on a fire-ground will readily deduce the level of his knowledge from that fact alone!

Cheers, Mike.

I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...

... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal

Rod
Rod
Joined: 3 Jan 06
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Credit: 811266
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RE: RE: RE: The

Message 66595 in response to message 66594

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The "unknown unknowns" are in the other guy's head!

..

When Rumsfeld said that, I knew exactly what he meant..:-)


[sarcasm set to turbo]
We have a Royal Commission into last year's bush fires here in Victoria. And what a splendid outing for all the armchair experts it has been. None of whom, alas, had given any timely warning of what they now claim to have known with contemporaneous certainty. Nor had they attempted to intervene at the right moments with key advice on the day. Odd that. And a real shame considering what may have been averted .....
[/sarcasm set to turbo]

Gives the title 'consultant' a bad rep, I'm afraid. One chap who self-designated as a 'bushfire expert' had a beard down to his navel. Anyone who has ever worked on a fire-ground will readily deduce the level of his knowledge from that fact alone!

Cheers, Mike.

[Cynic On]Ah! Royal Commissions.. What Glorious Fine Way to Waste Money So People can Vent. A report will be written and actually probably be read by a couple of mid level policy wonks. Life Goes On.[Cynic Off]
[Calmed Down a bit]
Edit:They only work when their is consequences and people may go to jail.

Two here come to mind. The Somalia Affair. Where three members of Armed Forces Unit captured and tortured and killed a detainee. Armed Forces handling was inept. Royal Commission Formed.Three are serving life sentences and the Unit was disbanded. Armed Forces had a lot of cleaning up to do.

Another one more recent. RCMP officers Tasered an erratic arriving passenger in Vancouver. Resulting in death. RCMP investigate internally. No Fault found. Attempt to get result of investigation by public meant with a stone wall. Something smelt. Royal Commission Formed. Result, Both Officers lied about events, On stand. (especially when surveillance footage and radio logs were produced.) RCMP now have independent panel reviewing all incidents involving force. Status of two officers still pending.

Most times it takes a lot to convene a royal commission. Somebodies freedom has to be in jeopardy.
And then we had some political stunts to.

There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot. - Aldo Leopold

Mike Hewson
Mike Hewson
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RE: [Cynic On]Ah! Royal

Message 66596 in response to message 66595

Quote:

[Cynic On]Ah! Royal Commissions.. What Glorious Fine Way to Waste Money So People can Vent. A report will be written and actually probably be read by a couple of mid level policy wonks. Life Goes On.[Cynic Off]

They only work when their is consequences and people may go to jail.


It is so spooky. I was just viewing ( for the n'th time ) some episodes of Yes Minister and Yes, Prime Minister last nite. T'is a true gem that never dulls ....

Actually alot has re-surfaced on the first anniversary. Understandably. The whole gamut of responses that one would expect. Not alot of positives. My 'nicest' memory of the events, for what it's worth, was seeing some utterly spectacular helicopter flying skills first hand - the water bombing of a ridge adjacent our house by one of the orange sky-cranes. Amazing machines crewed by amazing people! :-)

Cheers, Mike.

I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...

... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal

Rod
Rod
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RE: Actually alot has

Message 66597 in response to message 66596

Quote:

Actually alot has re-surfaced on the first anniversary. Understandably. The whole gamut of responses that one would expect. Not alot of positives. My 'nicest' memory of the events, for what it's worth, was seeing some utterly spectacular helicopter flying skills first hand - the water bombing of a ridge adjacent our house by one of the orange sky-cranes. Amazing machines crewed by amazing people! :-)

Sometimes a public venting can be cathartic and money well spent.

There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot. - Aldo Leopold

Mike Hewson
Mike Hewson
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RE: Economists Need Their

Message 66598 in response to message 66591


On re-reading I've noticed ( my emphasis ):

Quote:
The quantitative aspirations of economists and financial analysts have for many years been based on the belief that it should be possible to build models of economic systems that are as predictive as those in physics


indicating that they probably don't know the worst of it! Why emulate physics? They should go for engineering models which are far more helpful in real life. My Dad was a civil engineer for over forty years - my local landscape is littered with the ( excellent! ) works he designed : mainly bridges, roads, watercourses and reservoirs. One has particular memory for me, a ( large for it's day ) header tank for the town's water supply on a nearby hill. As a naughty child I cut my hand on the sharp end of reinforcing wire issuing from concrete form work during it's construction. Those were the days when you could go to work with one's Dad, and yes he did tell me not to go near it! His base rule, well prior to the days of design refinement by computer modeling, was the 'safety factor' approach. Take your best estimate from known data, then pad by a multiple or three. Bear-Stearns could have done with a bit of that. My father virtually never submitted the cheapest quote upon tender, and rarely the most expensive either. Nothing has ( yet ) fallen over though .... :-)

Cheers, Mike.

I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...

... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal

Rod
Rod
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Posts: 4396
Credit: 811266
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RE: Why emulate physics?

Message 66599 in response to message 66598

Quote:
Why emulate physics? They should go for engineering models which are far more helpful in real life.

Agreed.. The problem is that building economic models is like building weather models. If there is a 25 per cent chance of rain, I will bring my rain coat. Its not the model's problem. it the amount of certainty people take from the model. Everything, (cost scheduling manpower material) I would fudge it 25 percent. (Sometimes I could not get away with it, which would result in some very stressful times.)
Other people with input would have their own fudge factors. Things could get out of wack and then it is time for a committee so we can all get real again.:-). The least expensive system I worked on was not under 500 million and about 7 years of your life.

There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot. - Aldo Leopold

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