Real new, real keen, but bit of a hiccup

Gary Roberts
Gary Roberts
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RE: ... maybe it would be

Message 20701 in response to message 20698

Quote:
... maybe it would be possible with, say, a service install, to remotely alter the preferences for those machines on Saturday afternoon, and then change them back before office hours Monday.

Good thinking Michael, and you wouldn't need a service install (although ultimately, anybody with machines on a LAN is going to find service installs, no local BOINC Managers, and centralised management through BoincView to be the way to go).

After I had replied to Mike earlier, I had reread one of his earlier posts where he just mentioned about setting "at work" preferences. So he's already figured out the various "venues" that you can set up with BOINC. I imagine the ones on the home LAN will be already set up under the "home" venue and the ones at the practice will be being added under the "work" venue (and once Ms Sharpy Thingy Whatsit gets hooked, I wouldn't be surprised to see the "School" venue getting a bashing as well :). ).

It's a bit of a manual chore - it only takes a minute, but you'd have to remember to do it. The work venue preferences could be reset at close of business on Saturday to "unrestricted" and (through BoincView) all the work computers "Updated" to have the change recognised immediately. Then on Monday morning, whoever opened up could do the precise reverse - set the restricted hours and manually "Update". Whilst anybody could change the preferences from any location that had access to the website, it's the immediate "Updating" that has to be done as well that makes it more convenient to do it from a computer on the work LAN with BoincView installed.

BoincView is an indispensible tool for multiple machines on a LAN. It's like BOINC Manager on steroids. It's a bit non-intuitive to set up initially but really great once you get used to it. If the work LAN can be accessed from a computer at home, all the management could be done from home through one BoincView. If not, there would need to be a BoincView on each LAN.

I didn't really intend for this to turn into a lengthy "lecture". Seems I can't help myself once I get started :).

EDIT: Seems like quite a bit happened while I was composing the above :). I'll read the extra info and comment further if necessary :).

EDIT2: Now there's even an avatar!!!! I'm going dizzy with all the changes :).

EDIT3: So "School"'s already done for and he's almost right about the Devs - it's at least 5 reams :).

Cheers,
Gary.

Michael Roycraft
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RE: ....It's a bit of a

Message 20702 in response to message 20701

Quote:
....It's a bit of a manual chore - it only takes a minute, but you'd have to remember to do it. The work venue preferences could be reset at close of business on Saturday to "unrestricted" and (through BoincView) all the work computers "Updated" to have the change recognised immediately. Then on Monday morning, whoever opened up could do the precise reverse - set the restricted hours and manually "Update".

Gary,

Here I go again...LOL. No, it's not one of those infamous "now, now, Michael" moments, which I'll never live down, but now amuse me. This "manual" part...I'm not a programmer, so I have to ask....couldn't that possibly be accomplished with a script?

microcraft
"The arc of history is long, but it bends toward justice" - MLK

Gary Roberts
Gary Roberts
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RE: ....couldn't that

Message 20703 in response to message 20702

Quote:
....couldn't that possibly be accomplished with a script?

Probably, but realise that you have to go to a website, pick a particular page, choose the correct venue section of the page, change the value there, force a page update and then make sure that all affected machines on the LAN were updated as well ... Pretty easy for a human to do but this sort of decision making sounds a bit more complicated than a five line script. I'm not a programmer so I really am only guessing here.

Cheers,
Gary.

Michael Roycraft
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RE: RE: ....couldn't that

Message 20704 in response to message 20703

Quote:
Quote:
....couldn't that possibly be accomplished with a script?

Probably, but realise that you have to go to a website, pick a particular page, choose the correct venue section of the page, change the value there, force a page update and then make sure that all affected machines on the LAN were updated as well ... Pretty easy for a human to do but this sort of decision making sounds a bit more complicated than s five line script. I'm not a programmer so I really am only guessing here.

Yes, I see your point. BTW, did you notice that your ever-so-subtle grooming has paid it's first dividend? Mike Hewson took his first shot behind the help-desk?

microcraft
"The arc of history is long, but it bends toward justice" - MLK

Mike Hewson
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RE: Probably ....am only

Message 20705 in response to message 20704

Quote:
Probably ....am only guessing here.

Now I have been wondering why various spec's are set/held at the BOINC server, to be queried by each machine ( "Who am I?" ) rather than each machine setting/holding and then informing the server ( "This is who I am!" ). The coherency is the same either way, being reconciled at an update opportunity. Probably an early design decision which would now require a biggie re-write to transfer such functions from server side to client side.

Quote:
Mike Hewson took his first shot behind the help-desk?

Heh, heh.... yes, and as we speak, the police are here taking statements. :-)

I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...

... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal

Tern
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RE: Now I have been

Message 20706 in response to message 20705

Quote:
Now I have been wondering why various spec's are set/held at the BOINC server, to be queried by each machine ( "Who am I?" ) rather than each machine setting/holding and then informing the server ( "This is who I am!" ).

This way is better for those with large "farms", especially if some of the systems are not easily accessible. If I want to change the resource share, or whatever, I don't have to go to every computer to do it, it's all on one webpage. For those with one computer, it would be easier/better to have them local - but there's a LOT of people with multiple systems. Like you. :-)

Mike Hewson
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RE: This way is better for

Message 20707 in response to message 20706

Quote:
This way is better for those with large "farms", especially if some of the systems are not easily accessible. If I want to change the resource share, or whatever, I don't have to go to every computer to do it, it's all on one webpage. For those with one computer, it would be easier/better to have them local - but there's a LOT of people with multiple systems. Like you. :-)

Spoil sport! I just wanted everyone else to do things my way!
:-)

(edit) Gosh this BBCode is fun....

I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...

... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal

Tern
Tern
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RE: Spoil sport! I just

Message 20708 in response to message 20707

Quote:
Spoil sport! I just wanted everyone else to do things my way!

Then you're on the wrong forum! THAT attitude is the one over at SETI! :-)

Gary Roberts
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RE: ... Probably an early

Message 20709 in response to message 20705

Quote:
... Probably an early design decision which would now require a biggie re-write to transfer such functions from server side to client side.

Now I really know why Elizabeth is Ms Sharpy Thingy Whatsit .... She's obviously just a chip off the old block :).

The debate about whether or not these things should be server side or client side has raged a few times in the past, I seem to vaguely remember. Bill's comments are absolutely correct about "farms". You certainly have created a decent farm in just a few days. The average "farmer" usually takes quite a lot longer than that, as the addiction doesn't usually bite so hard or so fast :). The developers behind BOINC are not stupid. They cottoned on to the power of addiction years ago, in the early days of Seti classic, and I'm sure they want to encourage the "farmers" as much as possible :). Server side prefs make it easy for the "farmer" without really affecting the single box owner too much.

Prof Bruce Allen, is quoted as having mentioned in a lecture he gave somewhere about the EAH project, that the volunteers here were saving his project multi-thousands of dollars a day in electricity charges by having all the heavy crunching done externally. It's little wonder that "farming" is to be encouraged :). Personally I think the whole concept is fantastic for the advancement of Science, something that is very dear to my heart.

Quote:
Quote:
Mike Hewson took his first shot behind the help-desk?

Heh, heh.... yes, and as we speak, the police are here taking statements. :-)

Michael, that was supposed to be a secret!!! Anyway, the cat's out of the bag now :). The next plan is to get Mike and Keith in the same room at the same time. With Mike taking pot shots and the Police attending and with Keith losing two of his inmates with one consuming battery acid and the other consuming fireworks so that the Police had to charge one and let the other off, I don't think I've had such a good belly laugh in a long time. If you put those two together, sparks would really fly ....

Hang on a minute ... I'm not replying to Michael ... (Damn BBCode quoting has got me confused ...) Whooopsss ... Just let another secret out of the bag ... :).

Mike is bound to run into Keith sometime because Mike has already met the delectable Nurse Rachette, professionally of course ... I'll just have to make sure I'm around to pick up the pieces :).

Cheers,
Gary.

Bruce Allen
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RE: Prof Bruce Allen, is

Message 20710 in response to message 20709

Quote:
Prof Bruce Allen, is quoted as having mentioned in a lecture he gave somewhere about the EAH project, that the volunteers here were saving his project multi-thousands of dollars a day in electricity charges by having all the heavy crunching done externally. It's little wonder that "farming" is to be encouraged :). Personally I think the whole concept is fantastic for the advancement of Science, something that is very dear to my heart.

The numbers are amusing. We currently have around 70000 computers working on Einstein@Home. Typically a modern computer will use another (say) 40 Watts of power if it is working hard, versus idle. If it's turned on and working instead of turned off, this would be more like 150 Watts. So I estimate that Einstein@Home is using perhaps 4 MW of power on the host computers. Now one MW-hour of energy costs around $100 USD. So this is around $400 USD/hour or $9600 USD/day just in electricity costs.

(Before anyone gets frightened and runs off to look at their electric bill, remember that per user this works out to perhaps 10 cents/day. Also your computer is less likely to fail if you don't turn it on and off, so it may actuallly save you money in the long run!)

Cheers,
Bruce

Director, Einstein@Home

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