Neeed help with compute errors

Alinator
Alinator
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RE: RE: RE: ...have you

Message 89899 in response to message 89898

Quote:
Quote:
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...have you tryd "speedfan" there is a setting for "dell support" its disabled by default, but it works fine on my dell laptop after being enabled.

I stated in my last post that I tried speedfan and, in fact, that is what I used to get the SMART data from the disk drive. However, the version I originally downloaded was 4.33 and it didn't seem to support the Dell Dimension 8400 motherboard that I have. I don't think Dell wanted anybody to have any insight into or control of it's product for warranty reasons. I can't find anything regarding fan speeds in the bios setup either and I kept the bios up to date until they stopped updating the bios.

Where is this "dell support" switch that is disabled by default? IIRC only very specific Dell MBs were capable of being supported.

my bad. its located in "configure" then "options" just above debug mode. i see it states for dell laptops so i have no idea if it will work for a dell desktop.

Just FYI, it is not uncommon for the Dells of that vintage (HP's and Compaq's, too) to not support the hardware monitor API's outside of what the manufacturer wanted to do with it. This includes Notebooks as well. I have a Dimension 4550 (Northie 2.66 P4), an XPS 550 (Katmai 550 PIII),and a Presario 1200XL-118 (K6-2/500) notebook, all of which have 'glue logic' chips capable of monitoring, advanced fan control, etc., but there's no interface to the end user like you get today.

IIRC, the Speedfan Dell support option is for later model ones that do have BIOS support for those functions, but aren't strictly compatible with industry standards.

I suppose if you were really motivated you could write your own kernel level driver to access the devices, but even I'm not that hardcore! ;-)

Alinator

Nothing But Idle Time
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RE: Just FYI, it is not

Message 89900 in response to message 89899

Quote:
Just FYI, it is not uncommon for the Dells of that vintage (HP's and Compaq's, too) to not support the hardware monitor API's outside of what the manufacturer wanted to do with it.
Alinator

Do you know if the currently marketed Dells provide sensor support that is visible to the outside world? Or if fan speed, memory timings, voltages etc can be regulated either thru the bios or by software like speedfan?

I think I'm in the market now for a new computer but I'm clueless who to buy it from. All I've ever owned is Gateway and Dell. I don't want to build my own but I don't want another computer that locks me out of having any "insight" into the computer's health or prevents me from making adjustments to fan speed, memory timings, voltages, whatever. Not that I would alter any of these things except fan speed. It just annoys me, it's like General Motors telling me that I can't look at their engine's dipstick!

Nothing But Idle Time
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Eureka! or Bingo! After 3

Eureka! or Bingo! After 3 days of prime95 running at maximum heat and power consumption I finally encountered a fatal rounding error that terminated the test. This flaw doesn't prevent my wife from doing her desktop publishing or writing email but it doesn't bode well for Einstein tasks. Guess I'm in the market for a new computer or I retire Boinc to the pasteur.

Alinator
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Hmmm... Well, I guess

Hmmm...

Well, I guess that's progress of a sort. However, as Harry Hogg once said, "That's not the kind of answer I'm looking for from you!". ;-)

Generally speaking, I think all of the recent models from the OEM's will allow you to monitor temps, fan speeds and such nowadays, but typically they won't let you tweak the operating parameters from the BIOS to avoid warranty hassles from overclocking and things like that. For your 8400, I'd almost bet there are jumpers on the MB for that though.

In any event, I wouldn't give up on your Prescott just yet. I suggest giving the heatsink, shroud, and fan a disassembly and thorough cleaning. You can use a pipe cleaner and isopropyl alcohol to clean the heatsink fins and a Q-Tip swab and alcohol to clean the blades and duct area of the fan.

Also, while you have the machine open check to make sure the fan is operating properly. Dells use a high volume, low speed fan, so if it's developing a case of 'tight bearings' it can easily get overlooked until it's too late. This type of fan doesn't usually make a lot of noise, even when it's on the verge of dying completely. You might even consider replacing the stock fan with a higher speed/CFM rated one, although that would probably increase the noise level from it.

It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to do the same thing for the PSU fan. Sometimes it can be a bear to get out of the case, but I don't think you should have that trouble with an 8400. Just be careful to not go touching capacitor terminals and things like that when you crack the PSU case.

OTOH, little problems like this are always good ammunition to use for commissioning a new big gun battleship! :-)

HTH,

Alinator

Dagorath
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Yes, fans slow down

Message 89903 in response to message 89902

Yes, fans slow down considerably over time. They not only get "tight bearings", the permanent magnets inside them weaken which means they develop less torque. I replace all the fans in all my computers every 2 years as part of PM (preventative maintenance). If you're not doing PM on the moving parts in a machine that runs 24/7 then you're gonna see trouble eventually. In addition to removing the fan shroud and cleaning the heat sink and fan, the power supply has to be opened up and blown out at least twice a year too.

mikey
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RE: Eureka! or Bingo!

Message 89904 in response to message 89901

Quote:
Eureka! or Bingo! After 3 days of prime95 running at maximum heat and power consumption I finally encountered a fatal rounding error that terminated the test. This flaw doesn't prevent my wife from doing her desktop publishing or writing email but it doesn't bode well for Einstein tasks. Guess I'm in the market for a new computer or I retire Boinc to the pasteur.

Actually I think it just means you need a less picky project for you to crunch for. You can see the whole list of Boinc projects here:
http://www.distributedcomputing.info/projects.html

there is another list here:
http://www.unitedboinc.com/en/projects

but I like the first one better, the first list gives all the Distributed Computing projects not just the Boinc ones. The second list is just Boinc projects and gives a little blurb about each one.

mikey
mikey
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RE: Yes, fans slow down

Message 89905 in response to message 89903

Quote:
Yes, fans slow down considerably over time. They not only get "tight bearings", the permanent magnets inside them weaken which means they develop less torque. I replace all the fans in all my computers every 2 years as part of PM (preventative maintenance). If you're not doing PM on the moving parts in a machine that runs 24/7 then you're gonna see trouble eventually. In addition to removing the fan shroud and cleaning the heat sink and fan, the power supply has to be opened up and blown out at least twice a year too.

I don't go so far as replacing my fans every 2 years but I do have a can of CRC or Power Lube as they now call it. It is kinda like WD-40 but for electrical stuff. Between spraying the CRC in the slot where the bearings should be and a can of compressed air, most fans can be brought back to life fairly easily. I do this with the power OFF and the power plug UNPLUGGED!!! And usually with the fan in my hand and a paper towel under the fan. I have never done a cpu fan this way but would if the thing was ever giving me troubles. I usually do this on my case fans when I open them up for some reason. I do not go around opening up cases though just because, I have 17 machines here running and I would be doing nothing else!!

Nothing But Idle Time
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I cleaned the case, cards,

I cleaned the case, cards, heatsink and fan before I ran the prime95 test. The fan is easily removable, including the fan blade, and was washed. Maybe I'm not as thorough as you but I feel like I did a good job cleaning the inside of the computer.

The fan blades do have good pitch and seem to fit the concept of low speed with high volume air flow, but the air coming out the back of the computer seems kind of paltry even though the fan is humming along nicely. I do a low grade qualitative test and stick my hand near the exhaust port. I have personally never felt like the fan speed and air flow was very good since the day I purchased the computer, but hey, Dell knows best. There is so much cabling in the way, too. That is one reason I was hoping Speedfan would allow me to increase the fan speed slightly after I started doing Boinc full time, but I have never gotten that to work.

I know you guys are capable, but don't ask me to start ripping out pieces parts and replacing things and redoing thermal paste etc 'cause I ain't that mechanical and don't like touching anything I don't understand. I wouldn't know how to identify these sensor "jumpers" to which you refer. When I was cleaning one time a jumper fell off from what I think was the CMOS or password thingy and I had no clue where this jumper came from. There were several places I could have reinstalled the jumper and I was darn lucky to have picked the right one. I was waiting for the computer to go up in smoke when I powered it up.

There may be other projects I can run but I don't want to. I like Einstein and Rosetta and that is it. Cosmology staff failed me so I won't go back there again.

Thanks to everyone for helping me.

Dagorath
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I can't deny the restorative

Message 89907 in response to message 89905

I can't deny the restorative powers of good ol' CRC (now Power Lube) in some cases but it cannot fix a bearing that is worn to the point of chattering or restore weakened magnets.

Alinator
Alinator
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RE: RE: Yes, fans slow

Message 89908 in response to message 89905

Quote:
Quote:
Yes, fans slow down considerably over time. They not only get "tight bearings", the permanent magnets inside them weaken which means they develop less torque. I replace all the fans in all my computers every 2 years as part of PM (preventative maintenance). If you're not doing PM on the moving parts in a machine that runs 24/7 then you're gonna see trouble eventually. In addition to removing the fan shroud and cleaning the heat sink and fan, the power supply has to be opened up and blown out at least twice a year too.

I don't go so far as replacing my fans every 2 years but I do have a can of CRC or Power Lube as they now call it. It is kinda like WD-40 but for electrical stuff. Between spraying the CRC in the slot where the bearings should be and a can of compressed air, most fans can be brought back to life fairly easily. I do this with the power OFF and the power plug UNPLUGGED!!! And usually with the fan in my hand and a paper towel under the fan. I have never done a cpu fan this way but would if the thing was ever giving me troubles. I usually do this on my case fans when I open them up for some reason. I do not go around opening up cases though just because, I have 17 machines here running and I would be doing nothing else!!

Ahhh, yes!...

The old CRC 5-56 in the guts trick! ;-)

I have friend who used to have a 60 Thunderbird. The generator was located right where it could collect leaked/spilled oil and other detritus. A few good shots of 5-56 would bring it back into operation, and thus greatly extend the interval between full scale tear down cleanups.

The only problem with this for cooling fans is the so called permanently lubed bearings they use. If you wait until they get 'tight' they are most likely damaged as well. Also, the lube in 5-56 is fairly light weight and somewhat volatile, so it doesn't have great retention in a moving application like a bearing.

Sleeve bearings are essentially junk at this point, so the fan should be replaced ASAP. 1 and 2 ball bearing fans should be checked for smooth rolling operation (don't be confused by the magnetic commutation 'steps' in some fans). If you feel any 'crunchiness' as you turn the rotor, it should be replaced.

Alinator

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