is it einstein or my hardware?

paul milton
paul milton
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RE: Can you just leave the

Quote:

Can you just leave the side off until then? Or if you are going to replace it anyway cut a hole in the side and put a screen over the hole. The hole could be a good thing for the next build as it is then usable as a case fan mount that blows onto the cpu directly.

i thought about that, but i have a few problems, im legally blind and cant cut a straight line to save my life lol. i do have a set of tinsnips. but, the issue is the case isnt wide enough for the 9900max, if i cut that hole the heatsink would be hanging out, thats assuming i could cut it right so that the panel went over it in the first place. i would end up just leaving the side panel off. which wouldnt nesasaraly be a bad thing (leaving EMI and EFI aside for a moment) but i have 2 cats, the fur would be a nightmare.

instead i went ahead and ordered a Rosewill RCX-Z90-CP 92mm Long Life Sleeve CPU Cooler i've had super bad luck with sleeve bearings but its the best alternative i could come up with from newegg (is it me or do they have less stuff these days?)

on the plus side, its got a copper insert, the one that was on here was all aluminum so there should be some improvement from that. and a previous heatsink i had (on an old hp pavillion 533w P4 478) i used a similar heatsink and had great results.

im just really disappointed in zalman at the moment, i mean to me that was no where near "entry level" not at that price, or design. to me entry level = aluminum, mid range = aluminum + copper, high end = all copper. and "elite" = multi phase change compressor cooling system (i.e. liquid nitrogen)

but, thats probably just me :)

i still plan to change the case out later but "later" will probably be a year or two away..

seeing without seeing is something the blind learn to do, and seeing beyond vision can be a gift.

mikey
mikey
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RE: RE: Can you just

Quote:
Quote:

Can you just leave the side off until then? Or if you are going to replace it anyway cut a hole in the side and put a screen over the hole. The hole could be a good thing for the next build as it is then usable as a case fan mount that blows onto the cpu directly.

i thought about that, but i have a few problems, im legally blind and cant cut a straight line to save my life lol. i do have a set of tinsnips. but, the issue is the case isnt wide enough for the 9900max, if i cut that hole the heatsink would be hanging out, thats assuming i could cut it right so that the panel went over it in the first place. i would end up just leaving the side panel off. which wouldnt nesasaraly be a bad thing (leaving EMI and EFI aside for a moment) but i have 2 cats, the fur would be a nightmare.

instead i went ahead and ordered a Rosewill RCX-Z90-CP 92mm Long Life Sleeve CPU Cooler i've had super bad luck with sleeve bearings but its the best alternative i could come up with from newegg (is it me or do they have less stuff these days?)

on the plus side, its got a copper insert, the one that was on here was all aluminum so there should be some improvement from that. and a previous heatsink i had (on an old hp pavillion 533w P4 478) i used a similar heatsink and had great results.

im just really disappointed in zalman at the moment, i mean to me that was no where near "entry level" not at that price, or design. to me entry level = aluminum, mid range = aluminum + copper, high end = all copper. and "elite" = multi phase change compressor cooling system (i.e. liquid nitrogen)

but, thats probably just me :)

i still plan to change the case out later but "later" will probably be a year or two away..

Ahhh I had no clue sorry! Another website you might try is http://www.microcenter.com/

I also use http://www.tigerdirect.com/ but they have gone back to mostly rebates again and I DO NOT do rebates from them. Before they closed down and came back up again I had some VERY bad luck with more then one rebate and am VERY resistant to trying again. I do buy stuff without rebates though.

I have also found some decent deals on http://www.amazon.com/gp/node/index.html?ie=UTF8&merchant=&node=1267877011 which is the Amazon.com returns/refurb/overstock site. I have never gotten anything that I had to return, I am knocking on wood here, and have gotten decent prices too. My last 3 gpu's, all Nvidia 760's have come from them, as will my next one, another 760.

And yes cats are such curious creatures if you leave the side off they will crawl inside to get warm!

paul milton
paul milton
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well, i give up. that one

well, i give up. that one wont fit either. from all the googling im doing it seems dell put their own ILM, so instead of having the rectangle behind the cpu, it looks more like the rectangle + an "X" backplate all in one. i wouldnt mind replacing the ILM, but cant for the life of me find any where that sells the 1150 ILM.

even managed to break a pin on the heat sink i just got, oh well. i put the old all aluminum back on, with proper TIM this time. im going to crank the fan up and see what happens. cant really expect aluminum to perform better even with a faster fan, though im tempted to try the 80mm i found that has 130CFM, i bet that babys loud as can be.

i went looking at motherboards and found one that looks like i could just drop all my components in to and go, only issue i can think of is the windows 8 key. i really dont like the idea of having to buy the o/s again just because i swapped motherboards :: sigh ::

i did learn a lesson i guess i should have known. no more dells! instead of just a case next time around i think ill just save up for a new build...

seeing without seeing is something the blind learn to do, and seeing beyond vision can be a gift.

paul milton
paul milton
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hmm, dumb question, does

hmm, dumb question, does Einstein do small FFT's? doing blend on prime 95 gets me to 160*f easy, with both fans at max (ear plugs any one?) on a hunch i set it to small fft's, system shut down with in seconds.

for now looks like i cant run Einstein, if i had a dremel and some one with good eyes i think i have a soution. but for now at least im stuck on idle.

seeing without seeing is something the blind learn to do, and seeing beyond vision can be a gift.

mikey
mikey
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RE: well, i give up. that

Quote:

well, i give up. that one wont fit either. from all the googling im doing it seems dell put their own ILM, so instead of having the rectangle behind the cpu, it looks more like the rectangle + an "X" backplate all in one. i wouldnt mind replacing the ILM, but cant for the life of me find any where that sells the 1150 ILM.

even managed to break a pin on the heat sink i just got, oh well. i put the old all aluminum back on, with proper TIM this time. im going to crank the fan up and see what happens. cant really expect aluminum to perform better even with a faster fan, though im tempted to try the 80mm i found that has 130CFM, i bet that babys loud as can be.

i went looking at motherboards and found one that looks like i could just drop all my components in to and go, only issue i can think of is the windows 8 key. i really dont like the idea of having to buy the o/s again just because i swapped motherboards :: sigh ::

i did learn a lesson i guess i should have known. no more dells! instead of just a case next time around i think ill just save up for a new build...

Over the years I have found that Dell motherboard connectors do NOT always work with off the shelf mb's, they can use specific plugs making changing the mb a possible no go either. I have never tried your model pc though. This has made it tough for me to reuse Dell cases when building new machines.

AND when making major changes the MS guy, in India of course, was NOT very helpful to me when I had to call them when I changed an mb, he said 'you MUST buy a new license as it is no longer a Dell'. I don't know if I had an ornery guy or if that just is what it is, but my old work, that gave me the Dell case, said they do it all the time and it works for them.

paul milton
paul milton
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just wanted to give an update

just wanted to give an update on this. i was right. after posting a very long and detailed post on the dell forum, a member of the social outreach team contacted me and took over the case. he sent out a tech one last time to change out the fans and heatsink, it was still running way to hot and still crashing with the 0x124, he arranged for a refurb exchange.

the new system so far hasnt had any crashes, other than a BSOD when i enabled raid for intel RST and forgot to enable safe mode first, my bad :-|

the system however was running near 200*f with prime95 and 190*f with einstein, i did FINALLY figure out what kind of heatsink is needed for the dell xps 8700, "spring screw" heatsinks only, basically the kind found on servers (from what ive been finding any way), i did find one that i thought would work out great MASSCOOL 8W2002B1M4

after replacing that i was still in the 200*f range, i was upset at that, and yet, amused. while sitting thinking (read, getting VERY po'd) it dawnd on me, this arctic silver cmq2 is "not" the ceramique ive used for years. so i figured i better go double check the instructions to make sure i was doing it right (swipe method) and discovered to my chagrin, that for the i7 cpus they do "not" recomend that method, instead to "tint" the cpu and heatsink, then apply a 1mm bead down the center, then place the heatsink on. now, how your going to get a 1mm bead out of a 2mm hole is beyond me, and how they can still stick to their clame of how many cpu's a tube can do when your using a LOT more than the grain of rice they state you need, is well, all so beyond me.

in either case, after cleaning off and reapplying following the "new" directions, temps are no longer at 200*f, but they are still to darn high for my liking, 160 - 190*f.

i had considerd lapping the darn thing, but after looking in to it it seems that the new cpu's dont have the heat spreader solderd on to the core, instead they use tim between the spreader and core, read: gap!

and before i even consider "delidding" which apparantly would be the only way to get better temps once you hit the "ceiling" i figured id try an experiment first.

at 3am in the morning (aint insomnia amazing?) i set the central a/c fan to "on" and turned the temp down to 74*f, now given the height of the stat i know that would get it down to 73*f at the towers height. i then took off the side panel, pointed my room fan at it on high, and placed a high velocity fan on high about 3 feet from the side.

the results? temps didnt drop one bit! i was frankly surprised by that. and sitting here at my "hutch" i could feel the heat coming out from this system, literally blow dryer heat.

so, looks like ive reached a ceiling, and sadly ill need to suspend einstein until i can figure out some kind of solution that doesnt involve me having to spend several hundred $$$ on water cooling, and potentially another few hundred on a replacement cpu if i screw up :(

now, ive been told "it can handle the heat" until it hits tjmax, thing is, im just not comfortable pushing 190*f in a house where ambiant was at 76*f, and which usually cant get blow 80*f this time of year (its actually been a cooler than normal summer here)

thanks for the help folks, it helpd me at least compile the info i needed for the folks at dell that could understand it and, on the plus side, the refurb has 16GB's of ram instead of the 12GB's it had (cant have to much ram right? :-) )

seeing without seeing is something the blind learn to do, and seeing beyond vision can be a gift.

mikey
mikey
Joined: 22 Jan 05
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RE: at 3am in the morning

Quote:


at 3am in the morning (aint insomnia amazing?) i set the central a/c fan to "on" and turned the temp down to 74*f, now given the height of the stat i know that would get it down to 73*f at the towers height. i then took off the side panel, pointed my room fan at it on high, and placed a high velocity fan on high about 3 feet from the side.

the results? temps didnt drop one bit! i was frankly surprised by that. and sitting here at my "hutch" i could feel the heat coming out from this system, literally blow dryer heat.

so, looks like ive reached a ceiling, and sadly ill need to suspend einstein until i can figure out some kind of solution that doesnt involve me having to spend several hundred $$$ on water cooling, and potentially another few hundred on a replacement cpu if i screw up :(

now, ive been told "it can handle the heat" until it hits tjmax, thing is, im just not comfortable pushing 190*f in a house where ambiant was at 76*f, and which usually cant get blow 80*f this time of year (its actually been a cooler than normal summer here)

thanks for the help folks, it helpd me at least compile the info i needed for the folks at dell that could understand it and, on the plus side, the refurb has 16GB's of ram instead of the 12GB's it had (cant have to much ram right? :-) )

If you are next to a window, like one of mine is, you can either put a window a/c unit in that window or hook up an exhaust type fan in the window with a dryer hose extension down near the pc that the fan can suck the air thru, thus exhausting it outside where it is hot anyway. You can buy window a/c units at home depot for around 80 to 100 bucks.

OR you could get something like this

Which is ENCLOSED water cooling, no tanks!! This one is 60 bucks but I am not sure it fits YOUR cpu, you will have to find the RIGHT one.

paul milton
paul milton
Joined: 16 Sep 05
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yeah i was looking at those

yeah i was looking at those closed units, most of the water blocks for them looks to use screws, which is what i need. just one tiney problem, the only vent on this is a 92mm oi!

thats why i was pricing the external systems, but $300+ is a bit much.

i would like to see if i could find a small case, kinda like the Cooler Master HAF Stacker 915R Mini-ITX Computer Case BUT, i cant figure out how to connect it to the main system so it knows to turn on, and id really want it to have its own dedicated PSU.. if i can figure that part out i may just build my own "loop", but i still think id run in to the ceiling problem. especially since there was no temp change with my little experiment.

if i could get my old system working again so i at least have a backup, i might be willing to try it. but i just cant figure that thing out. itl run for a day or so then it "acts" like its still on, but mouse/keyboard wont wake it up. go to restart it and you get "no operating system detected" go in to the bios and see the time/date reset, reset the date time, still get that error and it wont save. unhook the HD, go in to bios, reset time and date it saves. then hook up drive and reboot and itl boot in to windows. itl be fine again for a few hours to a few days and then do it all over again. and yes, ive changed out the cmos battery on it. i think its bad caps, as the drive tests out fine. so does the PSU. its actually why i baught the new system to begin with.

ah well, all else fails i can save up for a nice case meant for water cooling to begin with, move every thing over and go from there, would just need to figure out how to keep the wifi, its a half height card with the "antenna" going to the top of this case (plastic top). if i could find one with a plastic back panel i could some how route that wire to, or, make my own...

eh, i have time any way, other financial priorities at the moment :)

seeing without seeing is something the blind learn to do, and seeing beyond vision can be a gift.

mikey
mikey
Joined: 22 Jan 05
Posts: 9,374
Credit: 1,295,875,049
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RE: yeah i was looking at

Quote:

yeah i was looking at those closed units, most of the water blocks for them looks to use screws, which is what i need. just one tiney problem, the only vent on this is a 92mm oi!

thats why i was pricing the external systems, but $300+ is a bit much.

i would like to see if i could find a small case, kinda like the Cooler Master HAF Stacker 915R Mini-ITX Computer Case BUT, i cant figure out how to connect it to the main system so it knows to turn on, and id really want it to have its own dedicated PSU.. if i can figure that part out i may just build my own "loop", but i still think id run in to the ceiling problem. especially since there was no temp change with my little experiment.

if i could get my old system working again so i at least have a backup, i might be willing to try it. but i just cant figure that thing out. itl run for a day or so then it "acts" like its still on, but mouse/keyboard wont wake it up. go to restart it and you get "no operating system detected" go in to the bios and see the time/date reset, reset the date time, still get that error and it wont save. unhook the HD, go in to bios, reset time and date it saves. then hook up drive and reboot and itl boot in to windows. itl be fine again for a few hours to a few days and then do it all over again. and yes, ive changed out the cmos battery on it. i think its bad caps, as the drive tests out fine. so does the PSU. its actually why i baught the new system to begin with.

ah well, all else fails i can save up for a nice case meant for water cooling to begin with, move every thing over and go from there, would just need to figure out how to keep the wifi, its a half height card with the "antenna" going to the top of this case (plastic top). if i could find one with a plastic back panel i could some how route that wire to, or, make my own...

eh, i have time any way, other financial priorities at the moment :)

You could always replace the wifi card with one with its own antenna, or even a usb one with its own extension antenna.

What type of drive is in the 'bad' system? An ide/pata , sata or ssd drive? It could be the controller on the ssd drive if it is that kind, as when you unplug the drive the system lets you change the time/date and then sees the OS and will boot again. It sounds like a bad drive that is failing, but hasn't quite given up yet. I know you said it tested okay but that is normally a 'now' test, not a 'several days' test. If it is NOT an ssd drive you could run Spinrite on it, if you have it, and see what it says. I do not know if there is a trial for Spinrite but it is EXPENSIVE to buy for a maybe!

Have you just turned the machine on, not crunching, and just let it run for a few days and see what happens? One thing I would do if you do that though is to set it to NOT blank the screen, nor go into any kind of power down mode for anything, especially the harddrive. Just push the button on the monitor to turn it off and keep ALL the rest running at full power.

paul milton
paul milton
Joined: 16 Sep 05
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RE: You could always

Quote:

You could always replace the wifi card with one with its own antenna, or even a usb one with its own extension antenna.

it kind of has me spoiled, its a bluetooth wifi combo, half height mini card, i can find all kinds of pcix wifi replacements, but i cant find any that all so does bluetooth, and ive actually started to use that more. granted i could just go wifi card + dongle. but id prefer to use that port.

Quote:


What type of drive is in the 'bad' system? An ide/pata , sata or ssd drive? It could be the controller on the ssd drive if it is that kind, as when you unplug the drive the system lets you change the time/date and then sees the OS and will boot again. It sounds like a bad drive that is failing, but hasn't quite given up yet. I know you said it tested okay but that is normally a 'now' test, not a 'several days' test. If it is NOT an ssd drive you could run Spinrite on it, if you have it, and see what it says. I do not know if there is a trial for Spinrite but it is EXPENSIVE to buy for a maybe!

Have you just turned the machine on, not crunching, and just let it run for a few days and see what happens? One thing I would do if you do that though is to set it to NOT blank the screen, nor go into any kind of power down mode for anything, especially the harddrive. Just push the button on the monitor to turn it off and keep ALL the rest running at full power.

yeah no office to mr gibson but hes got that price set a bit high!

its a WD sata drive. ive let it sit a full 24 hours running ubuntu from a usb drive and its defaults. no issue. ive even had it go 24 hours with windows (vista), and no issue.

i admit i didnt think to disable ALL power save features, didnt cross my mind. i suppose it could still be an issue with the motherboard going in to a low power state, or, windows its self thats just not logging in the event viewer (it just shows the genaaric "the last shut down was unexpected")

now you have me thinking, wonder if i can find any kind of HD stress test with in windows, and maybe with in linux (it would need to be GUI, me and terminal dont mix!) so i could stress the drive both ways.

the thing is though. if i unplug the system (its a dell 530s) for 10 minutes, then plug it in, its lost the clock again. thats what lead me to think power distribution on the motherboard. or some how the power supply.

aside: i discovered that with just 4 work units running the system runs at 145*f which is well with in my comfort zone. so i may just disable GPU, and limit it to 4 threads, dont suppose boinc sets affinity?

seeing without seeing is something the blind learn to do, and seeing beyond vision can be a gift.

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