Those extra coolers are good if you seem to have a problem keeping the temp down to 60C or lower all the time.
I never use them myself and do the old fashioned way.....side panels are all removed and I have them all in a row with a 20inch fan blowing across them and they are in the coldest room during the winter and in the summer I just open the window and maybe turn the fan up a bit and I use the Evga Precision X for gpu fan control setting them at 50%
For some reason I have one with the panel off with one of the 650Ti OC'd box laying on it's side and that one always runs closer to 50C.
Of course I try to keep the room as clean as possible and watch the heat sinks and fans for dust.
60C is where you want to be just so it will run the tasks @ 0.5 at full speed and of course the CPU also cool as it can and a free core too.
The only one I have that runs at 83C most of the time is the GeForce 610M since it is a laptop and it has no problem but I also have it in the coldest part of the house with a small fan blowing on the card and it is getting close to 2 years running 24/7 like the rest of mine.
Here's a thought : are there any sealed liquid coolers for GPU's available, and for the given GTX card in particular ?
I know from my own experience that CPU liquid coolers have slammed down the temperatures beautifully ....
Cheers, Mike.
I've seen plenty of liquid cooling kit for GPU but I don't use that stuff either. I tried it and abandoned the idea because it's problematic, the definition of problematic being "creates or brings as many problems as it solves". Specifically, the pump has moving parts that wear out and eventually fail or don't pump enough fluid to do the job you need it to do. The exception is a diaphragm pump but then you're talking big money. If you mix different metals in the system you get a galvanic reaction that either corrodes the radiator or plugs it up depending on whether the rad is the cathode or the anode in the reaction. Topping up with the wrong type of fluid causes problems. Hoses and fittings leak even if you buy compatible threads/couplings and tube sizes and don't know how to maintain the system. And if you buy incompatible seals and threads then it leaks even worse and it's impossible to stop. Most people don't have the skills and knowledge to build or even maintain a liquid cooling system and even fewer are prepared to learn. Ask any automotive mechanic and he'll tell you air cooling is the way to go if possible. Well, it is possible for a computer
Magic has the right idea.... KISS and common sense. Those 2 will get you further than rubbing a lot of money on the problem. Take the case side off, tip the case on its side so that you get convection (the tendency for hot air to rise) working for you, line all your rigs up and have a cheap, easily replaced, mains powered fan blowing over top of them.
In summer months get the hot air out of the room as soon as possible before it mixes in with the rest of the air in the room. The reason for that is simple common sense. If the room temperature increases even by 3 Celsius degrees your cooling solution has to work a lot harder so make the first step in the "solution" be getting the hot air coming out of the computer out the window ASAP. Situate the computer below a window, place a fan in the window such that it blows air out of the room to the outdoors, let the hot air from the computer rise up into the fan where it's sucked out. Dead simple, very low cost and very effective. The closer the computer is to the bottom of the window the better it works. If the computer must sit on the floor than fashion a "duct" out of cardboard and tape/glue/staples that helps channel the hot air up into the fan. That's a penny's worth of common sense and a dollar's worth of material. Compare that to a $150 cooling "solution" that is doomed to fail because you're forcing it to attemp cooling a hot thing with another hot thing. Hope and pray all you want, that approach will never work well in summer months, perhaps not even in winter, unless you can afford air conditioning. AC changes everything, of course.
Here's a thought : are there any sealed liquid coolers for GPU's available, and for the given GTX card in particular ?
I know from my own experience that CPU liquid coolers have slammed down the temperatures beautifully ....
Cheers, Mike.
There's the Accelero extreme Hybrid, which I have on a HD 6970, but I'm not sure if it would fit a GTX 7 series card. It does a great job over stock cooling, but it can be difficult to situate in the case. Accelero also makes an extreme III (I think) cooler that only uses air but does a great job when newer. I've had a few of them on HD 5000 and HD 6000 series cards, they seem to lose some effectiveness after a year or so, maybe the heat pipes develop a leak? Not really sure.
Sorry. My intention with the phrase 'sealed liquid coolers' was properly tested and produced ( along the lines of eg. Corsair H-80 for CPU's that I use ) rather than roll your own. Properly securing the mountings is crucial. Naturally one can't beat the environment temperature! Closed loop systems can dramatically increase surface area for environmental heat exchange, particularly so if the heat source is quite compact.
The pipe shape of some GPU cooling constructs is interesting ie. the 'heat pipe' idea. I don't think convection within said ( hollow ) pipe has serious effect, so metal lattice conduction for which copper is excellent would be relied upon. Probably the price of copper these days makes a hollow pipe more economical than a solid rod. Within my Dell laptop the CPU's cooling backplate is one end of a shaped slab of copper which winds it way across to the fan assembly on the periphery of the case, so the fan doesn't actually blow air anywhere near the CPU per se.
Actually I'm now thinking/worrying about the pump used in the Corsair H-80, it's spec's don't define it. It did cost me around $150 AUD per unit when I bought them. But I don't know what the moving parts are ... nor for that matter will the coolant fluid remain within forever.
Cheers, Mike.
( edit ) A quick Google reveals some Corsair H-80's having scratching, grinding, whining, rattling and bubbling sounds ( proportional to pump speed ).
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
The pipe shape of some GPU cooling constructs is interesting ie. the 'heat pipe' idea. I don't think convection within said ( hollow ) pipe has serious effect, so metal lattice conduction for which copper is excellent would be relied upon. Probably the price of copper these days makes a hollow pipe more economical than a solid rod.
I think actually being hollow is part of the design. The principle is that the pipe is working much like a heat pump: the pipe is filled with a coolant, which evaporates at the "hot end" of the pipe, and condenses at the "cold end"==> heat transfer. Only problem: how do you drive the coolant circulation?? Heat pipes were invented (IIRC) also for use in space probes, so convection (in the absence of gravity) is not an option. Instead most heat pipes use capillary effects, so the pipe is not strictly hollow but at least partly filled with a mesh or something that will form capillaries that will transport liquid coolant back to the hot end. This way, the thermal conductivity of a heat pipe by far exceeds that of copper alone.
I realize that this one is not compatible with my particular card but there are many others available that might be. Just want to get an idea of how they work. Pros/Cons.
Sorry. My intention with the phrase 'sealed liquid coolers' was properly tested and produced ( along the lines of eg. Corsair H-80 for CPU's that I use ) rather than roll your own.
There is no such thing as 'sealed liquid cooler' using flexible hose anywhere other than in the minds of advertising hype men and the naive. The fact is hot coolant permeates all known flexible hose and escapes into the environment. As the hose deteriorates over time the rate of loss increases. Eventually you need to open the system and top up the coolant. That afflicts systems that are properly produced and tested in the manufacturer's shop. You can buy one of those rather than roll your own but eventually it will need maintenance and you will either take it to some computer geek who cuts C++ code like a hot-damn but can't turn a screwdriver without poking his eye out. You will pay him to do nothing you need done or you will send it back to the manufacturer who wants to sell you a new one not maintain your old one. Or you will do it yourself after reading multiple poorly written articles at several different websites that contradict each other.
There are also problems with clamping common (affordable and usable) hose onto barb fittings. Eventually the hose wall thickness decreases which means the clamp must either be tightened or the connection leaks. Some clamps are designed to maintain constant pressure and shrink in diameter as the hose wall decreases but unfortunately those clamps can be defeated by an increase in pressure inside the system, again problematic because it solves one problem but creates a new one. Compression sleeve and ferule design is a little better and swedge and ferule is still better but none of them last forever. That's why "sealed" liquid cooling systems need frequent inspection and maintenance that is best performed by properly trained personnel ie. mechanics/millwrights/HVAC techs.
Liquid systems with metal lines and flared connections are a different story altogether but you won't find metal lines on PC cooling kit except in heat pipe designs and those don't require any kind of mechanical connection AFAIK. I believe joints/unions are soldered or welded but I've never had the opportunity to destroy one to see with mine own eyes. What I do know for sure is that they work very well and require little more than blowing the dust out of the fins and renewing the thermal paste once in a while.
Quote:
Naturally one can't beat the environment temperature!
But you can choose the environment you dump the heat into from the environment in your computer room to the outdoor environment and doing so is not nearly as difficult or as expensive as one might think.
Quote:
Closed loop systems can dramatically increase surface area for environmental heat exchange, particularly so if the heat source is quite compact.
True but in a relatively small room without AC eventually the law of diminishing marginal return on investment works against you and you have to add a square metre of surface area just to get an additional .01 watt of cooling. If you shed heat to the outdoors that law loses to the nearly infinite capacity for the outdoors to absorb your heat. Also, if necessary you can increase the size of your radiator by an order of magnitude and hide it behind a lilac bush easily. That's not so easy inside your home. Doable but not easy and not guaranteed to never come back and bite your glutius maximus (sp?).
Quote:
Within my Dell laptop the CPU's cooling backplate is one end of a shaped slab of copper which winds it way across to the fan assembly on the periphery of the case, so the fan doesn't actually blow air anywhere near the CPU per se.
Dell engineered cooling is top notch and has been for years. Everybody could learn a thing or three about PC cooling from Dell.
Quote:
Actually I'm now thinking/worrying about the pump used in the Corsair H-80, it's spec's don't define it. It did cost me around $150 AUD per unit when I bought them. But I don't know what the moving parts are ... nor for that matter will the coolant fluid remain within forever.
Cheers, Mike.
I could be wrong but I can almost guarantee it's an impeller pump. Impeller is a good design and ubiquitous but like anything with moving parts more complicated than a slide rule you need to know how to check it and maintain it or pay someone big bucks to do it for you or just run it until it either explodes or ceases up.
Quote:
( edit ) A quick Google reveals some Corsair H-80's having scratching, grinding, whining, rattling and bubbling sounds ( proportional to pump speed ).
Reminds me of my friend's hemi Cuda seconds before the crankshaft and pistons 3, 5 and 9 went through the oil pan, bounced off the pavement and punched holes in the transmission. I was in the back seat with Marcia Swanson and to me it sounded like he had run over a large pig which was then caught on something and was being dragged along kicking, squealing and biting. Then a chunk of piston hit the floorboard directly beneath Marcia's left foot and broke her big toe causing her to clamp down hard on my tongue. At that same moment I caught a whiff of the burnt oil and realized it wasn't a pig under the cuda, it was Gordie's pistons.
I expect your coolant will be leaving the system in the not too distant future unless you replace that pump.
My experience with water blocks for GPUs is mixed.
It was a fun project to configure and install but a lot of work. My goal was to get a quiet cruncher I could have running in my living room. That goal failed because the heat from a CPU + a dual GPU card was so much that I had to run the pump and the fans on the radiator fast to keep the water from boiling :)
It was still quieter than the old air cooling I had, but didn't reach my "silent" goal. I eventually took the CPU off the water loop and ran a closed loop cooler for that. Took the some strain off my pump and fans but also added it's own pump and fan .. oh well :)
When I upgraded the machine I went all air cooling. Much easier to install and not much more noise. And no maintenance.
Things I learned:
Get the biggest radiator you can fit in your box. Preferably a 3 x 120mm. A small 1 x 120 won't do you much good.
Go for a high flow water block and pump.
Make sure your pump is installed *after* the radiator. Pumps don't like hot water
Get fans for your radiator that can move a lot of air.
I got my water block from EKWB and it worked fine for me.
robl, The side fan does decrease the temp readings more when on than off. The 3 fan config is one of the reasons I gave the Gigabyte a try instead of my standard evga pick. Time will tell if it was the right one.
IMO the big thing I found in my research of the best way to air cool my system was the quality of the fans. High cfm , hydro bearings rated at at 300000hrs, and low dbls. All the fans that came with my case have been switched out. The rig is cooler and quieter. I even switched out the fan on the 212 evo cpu cooler with same and got better cooling with lower noise.
My rig is in the LR next to tv at about 1.5 feet from floor. I wouldn't take the side-s off strictly re looks. My choice. I figured that now that I have only one rig I could spend a bit extra to spec it up :)
EDIT: I forgot to say I went with Cougar brand fans.
Here's a thought : are there
)
Here's a thought : are there any sealed liquid coolers for GPU's available, and for the given GTX card in particular ?
I know from my own experience that CPU liquid coolers have slammed down the temperatures beautifully ....
Cheers, Mike.
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
Those extra coolers are good
)
Those extra coolers are good if you seem to have a problem keeping the temp down to 60C or lower all the time.
I never use them myself and do the old fashioned way.....side panels are all removed and I have them all in a row with a 20inch fan blowing across them and they are in the coldest room during the winter and in the summer I just open the window and maybe turn the fan up a bit and I use the Evga Precision X for gpu fan control setting them at 50%
For some reason I have one with the panel off with one of the 650Ti OC'd box laying on it's side and that one always runs closer to 50C.
Of course I try to keep the room as clean as possible and watch the heat sinks and fans for dust.
60C is where you want to be just so it will run the tasks @ 0.5 at full speed and of course the CPU also cool as it can and a free core too.
The only one I have that runs at 83C most of the time is the GeForce 610M since it is a laptop and it has no problem but I also have it in the coldest part of the house with a small fan blowing on the card and it is getting close to 2 years running 24/7 like the rest of mine.
RE: Here's a thought : are
)
I've seen plenty of liquid cooling kit for GPU but I don't use that stuff either. I tried it and abandoned the idea because it's problematic, the definition of problematic being "creates or brings as many problems as it solves". Specifically, the pump has moving parts that wear out and eventually fail or don't pump enough fluid to do the job you need it to do. The exception is a diaphragm pump but then you're talking big money. If you mix different metals in the system you get a galvanic reaction that either corrodes the radiator or plugs it up depending on whether the rad is the cathode or the anode in the reaction. Topping up with the wrong type of fluid causes problems. Hoses and fittings leak even if you buy compatible threads/couplings and tube sizes and don't know how to maintain the system. And if you buy incompatible seals and threads then it leaks even worse and it's impossible to stop. Most people don't have the skills and knowledge to build or even maintain a liquid cooling system and even fewer are prepared to learn. Ask any automotive mechanic and he'll tell you air cooling is the way to go if possible. Well, it is possible for a computer
Magic has the right idea.... KISS and common sense. Those 2 will get you further than rubbing a lot of money on the problem. Take the case side off, tip the case on its side so that you get convection (the tendency for hot air to rise) working for you, line all your rigs up and have a cheap, easily replaced, mains powered fan blowing over top of them.
In summer months get the hot air out of the room as soon as possible before it mixes in with the rest of the air in the room. The reason for that is simple common sense. If the room temperature increases even by 3 Celsius degrees your cooling solution has to work a lot harder so make the first step in the "solution" be getting the hot air coming out of the computer out the window ASAP. Situate the computer below a window, place a fan in the window such that it blows air out of the room to the outdoors, let the hot air from the computer rise up into the fan where it's sucked out. Dead simple, very low cost and very effective. The closer the computer is to the bottom of the window the better it works. If the computer must sit on the floor than fashion a "duct" out of cardboard and tape/glue/staples that helps channel the hot air up into the fan. That's a penny's worth of common sense and a dollar's worth of material. Compare that to a $150 cooling "solution" that is doomed to fail because you're forcing it to attemp cooling a hot thing with another hot thing. Hope and pray all you want, that approach will never work well in summer months, perhaps not even in winter, unless you can afford air conditioning. AC changes everything, of course.
RE: Here's a thought : are
)
There's the Accelero extreme Hybrid, which I have on a HD 6970, but I'm not sure if it would fit a GTX 7 series card. It does a great job over stock cooling, but it can be difficult to situate in the case. Accelero also makes an extreme III (I think) cooler that only uses air but does a great job when newer. I've had a few of them on HD 5000 and HD 6000 series cards, they seem to lose some effectiveness after a year or so, maybe the heat pipes develop a leak? Not really sure.
-Dave
[edit spelling...]
Sorry. My intention with the
)
Sorry. My intention with the phrase 'sealed liquid coolers' was properly tested and produced ( along the lines of eg. Corsair H-80 for CPU's that I use ) rather than roll your own. Properly securing the mountings is crucial. Naturally one can't beat the environment temperature! Closed loop systems can dramatically increase surface area for environmental heat exchange, particularly so if the heat source is quite compact.
The pipe shape of some GPU cooling constructs is interesting ie. the 'heat pipe' idea. I don't think convection within said ( hollow ) pipe has serious effect, so metal lattice conduction for which copper is excellent would be relied upon. Probably the price of copper these days makes a hollow pipe more economical than a solid rod. Within my Dell laptop the CPU's cooling backplate is one end of a shaped slab of copper which winds it way across to the fan assembly on the periphery of the case, so the fan doesn't actually blow air anywhere near the CPU per se.
Actually I'm now thinking/worrying about the pump used in the Corsair H-80, it's spec's don't define it. It did cost me around $150 AUD per unit when I bought them. But I don't know what the moving parts are ... nor for that matter will the coolant fluid remain within forever.
Cheers, Mike.
( edit ) A quick Google reveals some Corsair H-80's having scratching, grinding, whining, rattling and bubbling sounds ( proportional to pump speed ).
I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...
... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal
RE: The pipe shape of
)
I think actually being hollow is part of the design. The principle is that the pipe is working much like a heat pump: the pipe is filled with a coolant, which evaporates at the "hot end" of the pipe, and condenses at the "cold end"==> heat transfer. Only problem: how do you drive the coolant circulation?? Heat pipes were invented (IIRC) also for use in space probes, so convection (in the absence of gravity) is not an option. Instead most heat pipes use capillary effects, so the pipe is not strictly hollow but at least partly filled with a mesh or something that will form capillaries that will transport liquid coolant back to the hot end. This way, the thermal conductivity of a heat pipe by far exceeds that of copper alone.
Cheers
HB
Does anyone have experience
)
Does anyone have experience with water blocks?
I realize that this one is not compatible with my particular card but there are many others available that might be. Just want to get an idea of how they work. Pros/Cons.
RE: Sorry. My intention
)
There is no such thing as 'sealed liquid cooler' using flexible hose anywhere other than in the minds of advertising hype men and the naive. The fact is hot coolant permeates all known flexible hose and escapes into the environment. As the hose deteriorates over time the rate of loss increases. Eventually you need to open the system and top up the coolant. That afflicts systems that are properly produced and tested in the manufacturer's shop. You can buy one of those rather than roll your own but eventually it will need maintenance and you will either take it to some computer geek who cuts C++ code like a hot-damn but can't turn a screwdriver without poking his eye out. You will pay him to do nothing you need done or you will send it back to the manufacturer who wants to sell you a new one not maintain your old one. Or you will do it yourself after reading multiple poorly written articles at several different websites that contradict each other.
There are also problems with clamping common (affordable and usable) hose onto barb fittings. Eventually the hose wall thickness decreases which means the clamp must either be tightened or the connection leaks. Some clamps are designed to maintain constant pressure and shrink in diameter as the hose wall decreases but unfortunately those clamps can be defeated by an increase in pressure inside the system, again problematic because it solves one problem but creates a new one. Compression sleeve and ferule design is a little better and swedge and ferule is still better but none of them last forever. That's why "sealed" liquid cooling systems need frequent inspection and maintenance that is best performed by properly trained personnel ie. mechanics/millwrights/HVAC techs.
Liquid systems with metal lines and flared connections are a different story altogether but you won't find metal lines on PC cooling kit except in heat pipe designs and those don't require any kind of mechanical connection AFAIK. I believe joints/unions are soldered or welded but I've never had the opportunity to destroy one to see with mine own eyes. What I do know for sure is that they work very well and require little more than blowing the dust out of the fins and renewing the thermal paste once in a while.
But you can choose the environment you dump the heat into from the environment in your computer room to the outdoor environment and doing so is not nearly as difficult or as expensive as one might think.
True but in a relatively small room without AC eventually the law of diminishing marginal return on investment works against you and you have to add a square metre of surface area just to get an additional .01 watt of cooling. If you shed heat to the outdoors that law loses to the nearly infinite capacity for the outdoors to absorb your heat. Also, if necessary you can increase the size of your radiator by an order of magnitude and hide it behind a lilac bush easily. That's not so easy inside your home. Doable but not easy and not guaranteed to never come back and bite your glutius maximus (sp?).
Dell engineered cooling is top notch and has been for years. Everybody could learn a thing or three about PC cooling from Dell.
I could be wrong but I can almost guarantee it's an impeller pump. Impeller is a good design and ubiquitous but like anything with moving parts more complicated than a slide rule you need to know how to check it and maintain it or pay someone big bucks to do it for you or just run it until it either explodes or ceases up.
Reminds me of my friend's hemi Cuda seconds before the crankshaft and pistons 3, 5 and 9 went through the oil pan, bounced off the pavement and punched holes in the transmission. I was in the back seat with Marcia Swanson and to me it sounded like he had run over a large pig which was then caught on something and was being dragged along kicking, squealing and biting. Then a chunk of piston hit the floorboard directly beneath Marcia's left foot and broke her big toe causing her to clamp down hard on my tongue. At that same moment I caught a whiff of the burnt oil and realized it wasn't a pig under the cuda, it was Gordie's pistons.
I expect your coolant will be leaving the system in the not too distant future unless you replace that pump.
RE: Does anyone have
)
My experience with water blocks for GPUs is mixed.
It was a fun project to configure and install but a lot of work. My goal was to get a quiet cruncher I could have running in my living room. That goal failed because the heat from a CPU + a dual GPU card was so much that I had to run the pump and the fans on the radiator fast to keep the water from boiling :)
It was still quieter than the old air cooling I had, but didn't reach my "silent" goal. I eventually took the CPU off the water loop and ran a closed loop cooler for that. Took the some strain off my pump and fans but also added it's own pump and fan .. oh well :)
When I upgraded the machine I went all air cooling. Much easier to install and not much more noise. And no maintenance.
Things I learned:
Get the biggest radiator you can fit in your box. Preferably a 3 x 120mm. A small 1 x 120 won't do you much good.
Go for a high flow water block and pump.
Make sure your pump is installed *after* the radiator. Pumps don't like hot water
Get fans for your radiator that can move a lot of air.
I got my water block from EKWB and it worked fine for me.
robl, The side fan does
)
robl, The side fan does decrease the temp readings more when on than off. The 3 fan config is one of the reasons I gave the Gigabyte a try instead of my standard evga pick. Time will tell if it was the right one.
There are several add on air coolers for gpu,s. One I read good things about was http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186068 , not in stock at moment but it may give ideas and show options.
I didn't try liquid for the reasons above.
IMO the big thing I found in my research of the best way to air cool my system was the quality of the fans. High cfm , hydro bearings rated at at 300000hrs, and low dbls. All the fans that came with my case have been switched out. The rig is cooler and quieter. I even switched out the fan on the 212 evo cpu cooler with same and got better cooling with lower noise.
My rig is in the LR next to tv at about 1.5 feet from floor. I wouldn't take the side-s off strictly re looks. My choice. I figured that now that I have only one rig I could spend a bit extra to spec it up :)
EDIT: I forgot to say I went with Cougar brand fans.