Global Warming - Moved

Rod
Rod
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RE: Some people at NOAA are

Message 93223 in response to message 93222

Quote:
Some people at NOAA are predicting a big solar storm in 2013 which will affect all power grids and communication grids, and also our cell phones. But there is no need to worry because, according to the Mayan calendar, the world will end in 2012. This is called "schadenfreude" in German.
Tullio

This solar cycle the solar min dragged on a bit.. The sun is now becoming a bit more active with a prediction of a solar max in 2013.. Just the universe unfolding as it should:-)

There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot. - Aldo Leopold

Rod
Rod
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Still keeping an Iron in the

Still keeping an Iron in the fire..

Opportunists

There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot. - Aldo Leopold

Mike Hewson
Mike Hewson
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RE: Still keeping an Iron

Message 93225 in response to message 93224

Quote:

Still keeping an Iron in the fire..

Opportunists


There's such scams aplenty DownUnda, like our Victorian State government still claiming carbon credits for the planting of new forest - that went thoroughly up in ( bushfire ) smoke 18 months ago.

Or a prominent ( well, noisy at least ) green activist ( entrepreneur is more accurate ) that has produced a series of shock/horror/doom AGW books - while not simply neglecting to tell us, but actually lying straight out when asked, regarding his investment in windfarms. Nice to put your money where your mouth is, and I guess it would look bad if he were seen to profit from bad things. Except it is other people's money, and a return is now doubtful if it doesn't receive the expected government subsidy, as it turns out there was little prospect of electricity generation. What to say to investors now? : Whoops, perhaps we should have put the propellers where there is some wind passing by? .....

And in a similiar vein one can invest in companies that both chop the trees down on one side of the hill, while planting them on the other side.

Or the electorate with one of the highest green votes in the country, but the local councils keep rejecting wind farm planning applications. So yes what a great idea they are! But not in my backyard, thank you, as I have property values to worry about!

Not to mention one green group ( there are hundreds of such self appointed bodies with unquestionable provenance ie. you're not supposed to question them ) that both wants wind farms but not near birds! We await with interest their siting plans .....

I think this is the price of 'narrow sourcing' of policy. You really need to involve people outside of some elitist closed circle of tree huggers, as like many minority groups they are paranoid, pitifully over-focussed, and really won't listen outside of the tribal mantras. GroupThink becomes GroupDumb. Complexity overwhelms them and then splat, the truck of reality comes along.

Cheers, Mike.

( edit ) One other property of our recent federal election that ought be worrying to the Greens party ( but probably won't be for GroupDumb reasons ) : exit polls on voters in the electorates that scored the highest Green vote showed that overwhelmingly it was the economy people were concerned about and that ( due to our preferential voting system ) being a protest against Labor. Few mentioned Green policies. Which is not too surprising as Bob Brown ( the Green's leader ) campaigned almost exclusively on the 'spoiler' concept - keep us in the Senate as balance of power - barely mentioning environmental issues. Many, like myself, think they have some neat concepts - but why, oh why, do they have to be so crap at it? So it's not just the 'major' parties that need to beef up the quality of their candidates, by flushing out/down the ideologues. Some times I think they prefer remaining on the periphery, and not generalising their support, as one can't be a special martyr if everyone is being crucified.

I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter. Blaise Pascal

Bill592
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Gundolf Jahn
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RE: Global Warming ? ___

Message 93227 in response to message 93226

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Global Warming ? ___ Ya You Betcha.


Yep, indeed. The global warming is supposed to disrupt the Gulf Stream - and then it's going to be cold here (in Europe).

Gruß,
Gundolf

Computer sind nicht alles im Leben. (Kleiner Scherz)

Bill592
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RE: Yep, indeed. The

Message 93228 in response to message 93227

Quote:


Yep, indeed. The global warming is supposed to disrupt the Gulf Stream -
and then it's going to be cold here (in Europe).

Gruß,
Gundolf

Hi Gundolf,

I think the massive BP oil spill in the gulf (which the commie U.S. media has stopped talking about. )
has already disrupted the gulf stream. This cold wave could be related.

Bill

tullio
tullio
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So far weather has been

So far weather has been normal in Italy. We had a little snow but temperatures are about zero C, as it is common in December.
Tullio

Mike Hewson
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RE: Yep, indeed. The global

Message 93230 in response to message 93227

Quote:
Yep, indeed. The global warming is supposed to disrupt the Gulf Stream - and then it's going to be cold here (in Europe).


Well I wouldn't invoke that just yet! :-)

The lower limit ( on the lag with CO2 rise ) is about 1000 years. The base issue is enormous momentum and kinetic energy of the moving mass of water involved in the Atlantic conveyor et al. Even the strongest AGW models can't find a mechanism, or the supporting data, for 'putting the brakes on' that quickly - a single circuit of the entire worldwide deep water loop is probably around 1500 years, and you'd have to expose all of the water in the conveyor to some surface mechanism like GW to get it to slow or stop. Mid ocean depths are measured in miles and there is water there now that won't see daylight ( or any nett conducted warmth from it ) for centuries.

On shorter time scales tropic to pole heat transfer is overwhelmingly from atmospheric mechanisms. Hot air is way easier to move around, and to change movement of, than slightly warmer but far denser water. So maybe the next ice age may arrive a bit earlier. Even extreme AGW proponents aren't expecting any change this millennium, and nothing even measurable this century.

Maybe you were thinking of wind & tide driven surface currents ( yep, hurricanes etc ) - which is not what the global-warming/thermohaline-circulation linkage proposition is referring to.

Cheers, Mike.

I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter. Blaise Pascal

mikey
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RE: RE: Yep, indeed. The

Message 93231 in response to message 93228

Quote:
Quote:


Yep, indeed. The global warming is supposed to disrupt the Gulf Stream -
and then it's going to be cold here (in Europe).

Gruß,
Gundolf

Hi Gundolf,

I think the massive BP oil spill in the gulf (which the commie U.S. media has stopped talking about. )
has already disrupted the gulf stream. This cold wave could be related.

Bill

The media has moved on because the story is no longer 'bleeding', there are flashier stories right now. In our 'I want it RIGHT NOW' World if they stay on the same story for too long people will change the channel! And then the channel will disappear, no viewers means no advertisers, which in turn means no money. Wikileaks, each countries government missteps, some celebrity getting drunk and acting stupid again, etc, etc they all compete for the lead story on all channels, except of course the 'story' channels. I call the Science, History, Military, NatGeo, Discovery etc channels 'story' channels because they tell a story and then move on to the next one, as opposed to the 'news' channels that bring us the latest blood and guts stuff! The 'news' channels can be on the same story for weeks, as in the Gulf Oil Spill, or move onto the next one seemingly before the last one is even over!

Gundolf Jahn
Gundolf Jahn
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RE: RE: Yep, indeed. The

Message 93232 in response to message 93230

Quote:
Quote:
Yep, indeed. The global warming is supposed to disrupt the Gulf Stream - and then it's going to be cold here (in Europe).

Well I wouldn't invoke that just yet! :-)

The lower limit ( on the lag with CO2 rise ) is about 1000 years...


I'm not sure about the absolute numbers (I can't even tell for sure where I've read it (probably Scientific American):-), but what I recall is that it wasn't about stopping the Gulf Stream but about creating a "short circuit" somewhere on its way.

But what I really intended to say is that "global warming" doesn't mean that it gets warmer everywhere at the same time.

Gruß,
Gundolf

Computer sind nicht alles im Leben. (Kleiner Scherz)

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