Global Warming - Moved

Bill592
Bill592
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RE: Global Warming - Moved

Bill592
Bill592
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Pretending the climate email

Pretending the climate email leak isn't a crisis won't make it go away

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2009/nov/25/monbiot-climate-leak-crisis-response

ClimateGate Ringleader Phil Jones to Step Down

http://www.infowars.com/climate-change-ringleader-phil-jones-to-step-down/

ClimateGate Totally Ignored By American TV News Outlets Except Fox

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2009/11/24/climategate-totally-ignored-tv-news-outlets-except-fox

Bombshell UN Documents Outline Plan To Use Climategate Crooks In “End Run†Around National Sovereignty

http://www.prisonplanet.com/bombshell-un-documents-outline-plan-to-use-climategate-crooks-in-end-run-around-national-sovereignty.html

Mike Hewson
Mike Hewson
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RE: The other way to see it

Message 93155 in response to message 93149

Quote:
The other way to see it is that the annual per capita emission of CO2 (as of 2007) of Australia is about 18.8 metric tons while that of China is only 4.6 t.


Of course. But an answer still needs to be produced to the flea, who is doing push ups, as to why the elephants are sleeping. :-)

As for the CRU thing, I fear this may well be the death of a whole area of science - for some years at least. Which is a disaster for us all at a time when such expertise is really needed. I fear environmental research funding across the board will dry up, plus careers, institutions, recruiting ....

It's likely many are in shock ( both sides of the debate ) over this. Personally I'd assumed the generic problem ( in the public debate ) was misrepresentation of otherwise validly performed science - the usual problem where those outside a field cherry pick results/conclusion/credibility for some other purpose ( like Al Gore say ). But to hear that those closest to the collection and husbandry of the primary data were deleting/subverting/substituting etc ( even ignoring/forgiving all the rivalry/groupthink stuff ) beggars belief.

It's a watershed.

Cheers, Mike.

I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter. Blaise Pascal

Rod
Rod
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I am in training not to think

I am in training not to think or have an opinion. Damm its hard :-)

And it begins. Its not that most of corporations that operate worldwide are against the science of AGW. All they want is stability and some targets to work with. I do not know what planet the American Chamber of Commerce (very influential) comes from..:-)

Today

Apple resigns

Rebuttal

Damm... I love America's dynamics..:-)

There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot. - Aldo Leopold

Mike Hewson
Mike Hewson
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RE: I am in training not to

Message 93157 in response to message 93156

Quote:

I am in training not to think or have an opinion. Damm its hard :-)

And it begins. Its not that most of corporations that operate worldwide are against the science of AGW. All they want is stability and some targets to work with. I do not know what planet the American Chamber of Commerce (very influential) comes from..:-)

Today

Apple resigns

Rebuttal

Damm... I love America's dynamics..:-)


One suspects that ( like most businesses ) they would be responding to market perception - so if a company perceives it can gain an advantage over a rival by taking either a pro or a con stance on AGW then they will.

So is there still the media blackout on the CRU thing from some networks?

Cheers, Mike.

I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter. Blaise Pascal

tullio
tullio
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First decade is warmest on

First decade is warmest on record says BBC:
BBC
Tullio

Rod
Rod
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RE: RE: I am in training

Message 93159 in response to message 93157

Quote:
Quote:

I am in training not to think or have an opinion. Damm its hard :-)

And it begins. Its not that most of corporations that operate worldwide are against the science of AGW. All they want is stability and some targets to work with. I do not know what planet the American Chamber of Commerce (very influential) comes from..:-)

Today

Apple resigns

Rebuttal

Damm... I love America's dynamics..:-)


One suspects that ( like most businesses ) they would be responding to market perception - so if a company perceives it can gain an advantage over a rival by taking either a pro or a con stance on AGW then they will.

So is there still the media blackout on the CRU thing from some networks?

Cheers, Mike.

I have to agree.. Some companies look at it as an opportunity. My remark was more about the large energy companies that are being well represented at the summit.

The blackout on american news was fiction. I saw it a lot of times on CNN. I think there might have been a delay until some news organizations checked sources and other things that news should do. Fox news has been noted on occasion to make news and not just report it. There is usually just a small number of hours devoted to news on FOX.( Like most american cable news), it is usually full of pundits expressing there opinions. What cracks me up about FOX is that the news they report during those hours, is sourced on what the pundits were discussing the night before. :-)

As far as the CRU thingy.. I will wait for the investigation to be completed before passing judgement.

There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot. - Aldo Leopold

Rod
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Rex Murphy gives his opinion

Rex Murphy gives his opinion on Climategate on our government subsidized TV Station CBC

Rex Murphy

There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot. - Aldo Leopold

Mike Hewson
Mike Hewson
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RE: I am in training not to

Message 93161 in response to message 93159

Quote:
I am in training not to think or have an opinion. Damm its hard :-)


Opinions are easy. It's the thinking that's hard. :-)

Quote:
I have to agree.. Some companies look at it as an opportunity. My remark was more about the large energy companies that are being well represented at the summit.


The energy companies won't be the ones with the problem, like any cost the price will go up and passed on ( it'll be the usual quiet cartel ). Consumer pays .... I think it's at the stage where the truth of AGW or otherwise is no longer relevant. It's become a herd thing ...... you know the joke about the two guys camping on the Serengeti?

They get up in the morning, and are sitting around the campfire having breakfast. One spots, well camouflaged in the grass, a hungry looking tiger spying them intently. Not too far away either. He tells his colleague who then looks over to the tiger. His colleague then begins to put his shoes on and ties up the laces quickly.

"What are you doing? You can't outrun a tiger!"

"I don't have to. I just have to outrun you! " :-)

Quote:
As far as the CRU thingy.. I will wait for the investigation to be completed before passing judgement.


Fair enough, but remember the investigation is being done by who? If it's not done and/or seen to be done independently then it'll have little value outside the institution. Now that's it's public everyone is second guessing and spinning both ways. Certainly the concept of 'peer review' is going to take a pounding.

In my line of work the rule is "Don't write down what you wouldn't be happy to read out in court later on." Because you just might have to! And ( I'm told! ) it is very annoying to have to rebut your own words ...... :-)

Cheers, Mike.

I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter. Blaise Pascal

Rod
Rod
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RE: RE: I am in training

Message 93162 in response to message 93161

Quote:

Quote:
I am in training not to think or have an opinion. Damm its hard :-)

Opinions are easy. It's the thinking that's hard. :-)..

Trying not to have an opinion or pass judgement is a very hard thing for a human being to do. Another thing that is hard is to have thoughts that are no more significant than feeling the temperature of the air with your nose.

Quote:

I have to agree.. Some companies look at it as an opportunity. My remark was more about the large energy companies that are being well represented at the summit.
The energy companies won't be the ones with the problem, like any cost the price will go up and passed on ( it'll be the usual quiet cartel ). Consumer pays .... I think it's at the stage where the truth of AGW or otherwise is no longer relevant. It's become a herd thing ...... you know the joke about the two guys camping on the Serengeti?

They get up in the morning, and are sitting around the campfire having breakfast. One spots, well camouflaged in the grass, a hungry looking tiger spying them intently. Not too far away either. He tells his colleague who then looks over to the tiger. His colleague then begins to put his shoes on and ties up the laces quickly.

"What are you doing? You can't outrun a tiger!"

"I don't have to. I just have to outrun you! " :-)

Yes the middle class will pay. They always pay whether its for wars or health care. but I think there should be a environmental cost in doing business and it should be built into the price of suppling goods and services. I think it just a natural balance.
To quote my favourite rabble rouser Edward Abbey from his book 'Desert Solitude' "Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of a cancer cell"

Quote:

As far as the CRU thingy.. I will wait for the investigation to be completed before passing judgement.
Fair enough, but remember the investigation is being done by who? If it's not done and/or seen to be done independently then it'll have little value outside the institution. Now that's it's public everyone is second guessing and spinning both ways. Certainly the concept of 'peer review' is going to take a pounding.

In my line of work the rule is "Don't write down what you wouldn't be happy to read out in court later on." Because you just might have to! And ( I'm told! ) it is very annoying to have to rebut your own words ...... :-)


I have been around long enough to know that no matter what results come out of any investigation whether internal or independent will be spun by both sides for their one ends. Their dirty laundry is out and as far as I concerned the only thing that matters to me is whether they can restore any credibility to me personally.

There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot. - Aldo Leopold

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