Global Warming - Moved

Rod
Rod
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RE: RE: I have to agree

Message 93143 in response to message 93142

Quote:
Quote:

I have to agree with Brendon Borrell that our obsession with climate change that we might have missed the forest because of the trees.

Blood for No Oil

I don't know, this "triage" concept sounds a bit odd, even offensive, to me: isn't the author saying this basically:" Look, we can't afford to save both the rain-forest and reduce CO2 emissions at the same time. Let's make a "triage" choice: You guys down there stop messing with the rain forest because that's important for bio-diversity. And we here in the 1st world countries can continue to drive SUVs, you know, because it's not that important for bio-diversity at all". I'm not sure the folks near the rain forests would come to the same triage strategy. Maybe I got the author all wrong tho.

Cheers
Bikeman

No I think he is also offensive with triage and the problem should be looked at more holistically. He states Its the hip thing in conversation in the west. He shows the problem is more complex than just to reduce carbon. Habitat loss is also not on the mainstream agenda. (Triage). He points to what I think is glaring example where developing countries are cutting down forest to develop plantation deserts to produce biomass for biofuel to supply the west so they can reduce their carbon footprint. He points out the developing countries are now asking for carbon credits for the tree desert they created. When you add it up in the long run you are probably producing more carbon dioxide then if you would have just used the fossil fuels at the start. So where is the mainstream research and media hype on the effect on climate especially local weather patterns from the result of destroying wildlife habitat. I think you would get a little more bang for your carbon reducing buck if the developed world would encourage the developing world to preserve habitat by reducing our demand for products resulting from habitat loss. But sadly that's not on the agenda.

There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot. - Aldo Leopold

Mike Hewson
Mike Hewson
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RE: I don't know, this

Message 93144 in response to message 93142

Quote:
I don't know, this "triage" concept sounds a bit odd, even offensive, to me: isn't the author saying this basically:" Look, we can't afford to save both the rain-forest and reduce CO2 emissions at the same time. Let's make a "triage" choice: You guys down there stop messing with the rain forest because that's important for bio-diversity. And we here in the 1st world countries can continue to drive SUVs, you know, because it's not that important for bio-diversity at all". I'm not sure the folks near the rain forests would come to the same triage strategy. Maybe I got the author all wrong tho.

Fair point. Maybe there's some retreat into silos occurring, with long standing environmental issues/stances literally shoved off stage. A base pivot of the discussion is 'who pays', and to put it fairly politely : those who have the energy have the where-with-all and motivation to ensure it's continuance.

Cheers, Mike.

I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter. Blaise Pascal

Rod
Rod
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RE: RE: I don't know,

Message 93145 in response to message 93144

Quote:
Quote:
I don't know, this "triage" concept sounds a bit odd, even offensive, to me: isn't the author saying this basically:" Look, we can't afford to save both the rain-forest and reduce CO2 emissions at the same time. Let's make a "triage" choice: You guys down there stop messing with the rain forest because that's important for bio-diversity. And we here in the 1st world countries can continue to drive SUVs, you know, because it's not that important for bio-diversity at all". I'm not sure the folks near the rain forests would come to the same triage strategy. Maybe I got the author all wrong tho.

Fair point. Maybe there's some retreat into silos occurring, with long standing environmental issues/stances literally shoved off stage. A base pivot of the discussion is 'who pays', and to put it fairly politely : those who have the energy have the where-with-all and motivation to ensure it's continuance.

Cheers, Mike.

That is pretty cynical :-) Probably in the short term. In the long term Simply.. we will all pay. The developed world more. One way or the other.. Now hows that for a bit of cynicism :-)

Edit: Let me clarify a bit. In the other.. The developing world will suffer more but the developed world will pay the most because they have more to lose. I can't understand why people can't see that.

There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot. - Aldo Leopold

Rod
Rod
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I like this solution for the

I like this solution for the impasse for agreement at Copenhagen. This is one way the developed world can help pay a little more.

Bulletin

There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot. - Aldo Leopold

Simplex0
Simplex0
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I would say that the people

I would say that the people of Africa will pay the highest prize in this case
It's a question of what you value most, the freedom of driving your SUV
or the value of other peoples life.

Rod
Rod
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RE: I would say that the

Message 93148 in response to message 93147

Quote:
I would say that the people of Africa will pay the highest prize in this case
It's a question of what you value most, the freedom of driving your SUV
or the value of other peoples life.

Good Point, I Agree

There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot. - Aldo Leopold

Bikeman (Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein)
Bikeman (Heinz-...
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An older quote I forgot to

Message 93149 in response to message 93087

An older quote I forgot to reply to, please forgive me bringing it up again

Quote:

Australia is in a similiar position, as we can make no meaningful practical difference regardless of sentiment when, say China, consumes more carbon fuels in a day than we could in over a thousand years. Any effort is symbolism at best.

That is one way to look at it, and you definitely have a point there, no question.

The other way to see it is that the annual per capita emission of CO2 (as of 2007) of Australia is about 18.8 metric tons while that of China is only 4.6 t. Should people in less populous nations be allowed to pollute more ;-)?? I guess nature doesn't care about national boundaries and they way we compute sub-sums of emissions, it's the total that counts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita

Bikeman

tullio
tullio
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At the end of November the

At the end of November the zero C isotherm on the Alps is at 4000 meters height. This is the warmest November in 26 years. What snow has fallen in the ski resorts is rapidly melting and the operators cannot use the "cannons" used to provide artificial snow from water since they need subzero temperatures. The skiing season in Italy starts on December 6 (Sant'Ambrogio festivity) and there is no snow. But this is the lesser evil.
Tullio

Rod
Rod
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I am neutral if much of AGW

I am neutral if much of AGW is manmade. I just would like to see people living more sustainably as a whole.

If their was not pettiness and back stabbing in the peer review process (just normal human traits sometimes) I would be amazed.

Hacked Archive provides fodder for climate sceptics

The comments are very entertaining :-)

There are some who can live without wild things and some who cannot. - Aldo Leopold

tullio
tullio
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East Antarctica is losing ice

East Antarctica is losing ice too, and here is some news from NASA:
NASA report on climate changes
Tullio

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