Credit adjustment

Arion
Arion
Joined: 20 Mar 05
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RE: Any takers?

Message 83898 in response to message 83897

Quote:

Any takers? :-)

Cheers, Mike.

I don't know Mike. Missing out on those Dunkin' Donuts just might have been the last straw.

Arion

[edit] Somehow I was suddenly remembered why credits weren't all that important. There's an old saying If you can't run with the big dogs stay on the porch.
Well I been on the porch since the day I first started and accept for the occasional flea bite I been pretty comfortable right there on the porch.

Bikeman (Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein)
Bikeman (Heinz-...
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Thanks for your long post, It

Thanks for your long post, It was most interesting.

What I personally extract from it is the idea that there might be a rather delicate ambivalent attitude towards credits by many: While they really don't care how many credits are awarded when making the decision to join a project, it's the sudden and sometimes drastic changes in the credit granting that leaves a bad taste for them. So while it's not important whether you get 1000 or 2000 credits per day in the first place, the act of (just an example) halving the credits one day to the other somehow leaves a sense of "changing the rules in the middle of a match", and is seen as "unfair" or "unfriendly".

Seen from this perspective, the self-adjusting credit system of SETI might work to dampen conflict as it changes the credits so often but in only small steps that users will either not notice the gradual change or will not care about it, because it's a credit adjustment in slow-mo.

As for my personal BOINC history, I'm also quite a SETI veteran, and when they switched to BOINC it was natural to look for backup and additional projects. When I noticed how much CO2 is generated to power my PCs, CPDN was a natural choice to get a "greener" conscience :-). What fascinated me about E@H was the science behind it, and I like the fact that the project is backed by well known and prestigious science institutions. Credits? Well, it's kind of fun to compare with others and "celebrate" milestones, so yes, I'd miss them if they were gone, but it's not something I can invest in emotionally.

CU
Bikeman

MAGIC Quantum Mechanic
MAGIC Quantum M...
Joined: 18 Jan 05
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Well Mike I could probably

Well Mike I could probably write a long story of my own history with Boinc and the Seti Classic days and all that goes with that.....but.......well it is past 2am here and I am supposed to get up in the morning to help friends hit golf balls around our planet for a few hours so I will just leave you with this before I go to sleep and let my pc's do what I tell them all to do.

Dunkin' Donuts

(I never see them where I live either but I figured they were everywhere since they have them in China too)

Mike Hewson
Mike Hewson
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RE: .... help friends hit

Message 83901 in response to message 83900

Quote:
.... help friends hit golf balls around our planet for a few hours ....


Wow! Orbital velocity golf balls! :-)


Ah, the love child of Starbucks and Krispy Kreme. :-)

Cheers, Mike.

I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to make it shorter ...

... and my other CPU is a Ryzen 5950X :-) Blaise Pascal

Winterknight
Winterknight
Joined: 4 Jun 05
Posts: 656
Credit: 221,490,871
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RE: RE: Question? Is my

Message 83902 in response to message 83880

Quote:
Quote:
Question?
Is my contribution to a project greater now, with a new computer, than three years ago with my then new computer?
They both cost about the same but the present computer uses less electricity. The old computer has been retired is no longer attached.

Yes, it typically would be because the newer computer would typically process units faster.

Not sure where you're going with this, because this would be true regardless of the credit schema.

Extreme example:

  • *Scenario A - You process 10 tasks on your 3-year old computer and are awarded 100 credit (10 per task). You process 50 tasks on your newer computer and are awarded 500 credit (10 per task).
    *Scenario B - You process 10 tasks on your 3-year old computer and are awarded 100 credit (10 per task). You process 50 tasks on your newer computer and are awarded 400 credit (8 per task).
    *Scenario C - You process 10 tasks on your 3-year old computer and are awarded 80 credit (8 per task). You process 50 tasks on your newer computer and are awarded 500 credit (10 per task).

In all of those cases the newer computer did more tasks than the older computer.

The main concept you appear to be having a hard time grasping is that the situation changes if one computer operates during two different credit schemas while another computer operates/operated under one credit schema. I've demonstrated that before with the "2000 tasks" scenario. Do I need to repeat the example?


I don't think you have grasped the meaning of my post, Ananas got it (post 87212), those few tasks done on the old computer, have just as much meaning to me as the many units done on the new computer.

edit] Sorry not answered ealier but ISP has been off for nearly 30 hrs

Arion
Arion
Joined: 20 Mar 05
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Here's another thought. There

Here's another thought. There are any number of reasons why participants leave specific projects. Some of these may be inconsistant operations, no forums or unfriendly forums, lack of project scientist involvment with the participants, lack of news updates, high electric costs, internet quotas, computer breakdowns, credits granted and the list goes on. With all these various reasons and no statistical evidence that credits granted is the MAJOR reason why participants leave a project I think that CPP might just be a blanket to cover everything. If this is the case what happens when all projects are equal and there is still a number of participants jumping to and from projects or leaving DS behind? What if the forced participation of all projects to follow a given formula for credits really does become a MAJOR reason for participants to leave? What do we do then, come up with another good idea?

Just another thought before I hit the bed.

Arion

Gundolf Jahn
Gundolf Jahn
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RE: I don't think you have

Message 83904 in response to message 83902

Quote:
I don't think you have grasped the meaning of my post, Ananas got it (post 87212)...


Was it perhaps post 87313? :-)

Gruß,
Gundolf

Computer sind nicht alles im Leben. (Kleiner Scherz)

Winterknight
Winterknight
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Posts: 656
Credit: 221,490,871
RAC: 40,431

RE: RE: I don't think you

Message 83905 in response to message 83904

Quote:
Quote:
I don't think you have grasped the meaning of my post, Ananas got it (post 87212)...

Was it perhaps post 87313? :-)

Gruß,
Gundolf


Yes you are right, finger trouble this end.

Alinator
Alinator
Joined: 8 May 05
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RE: RE: ... 2.) All

Message 83906 in response to message 83893

Quote:
Quote:

...

2.) All projects should reset the running count of credit granted for all entities every time the basis for granting credit changes. The reason here is that a running total implies that the basis is constant over time, when in fact it is not.

Alinator

This already made me leave a (non-BOINC) project and I will not stay at any project that does this.

Especially old work done on old computers consuming more energy and a lot more time for each workunit has a value for me. It is not monetary but it still counts, probably more than a monetary value could.

I'm not a credit hunter and I do crunch for projects that are known to give low credits because I like the projects - but resetting the credits would make me really angry.

OK, I can accept that as an axiom. :-)

So going forward, what about the case where you still have the old timer crunching?

Alinator

Alinator
Alinator
Joined: 8 May 05
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Credit: 9,352,143
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RE: RE: .... help friends

Message 83907 in response to message 83901

Quote:
Quote:
.... help friends hit golf balls around our planet for a few hours ....

Wow! Orbital velocity golf balls! :-)


Ah, the love child of Starbucks and Krispy Kreme. :-)

Cheers, Mike.

LOL...

Actually, one of those two's honored ancestors (and still alive and well to boot).

@ All Thread Participants:

FWIW, and lest you think I might be part of the element which has acquired a moniker which often end's up invoking Godwin's Law....

All one needs to do is take a glance at my fleet that credit doesn't mean all that much to me. ;-)

However, I am definitely not one of the Credit Anarchists either...

The definition of science is the pursuit of knowledge and truth...

BOINC itself is a science project, just a like any of the target projects which use it are.

One of the fundamental premises in scientific pursuit is forming a hypothesis and then either proving or disproving it using the tools of the scientific method. Since I'm an engineer by background and training, I reasonably apply the scientific method to things which happen in the BOINC universe.

None of us set the givens and parameters of BOINC. However, one irrefutable truth about the credit system was that is was set up to be a fixed, constant standard by definition. The question of whether this was a good idea or not is moot at this point. Personally I think it was the only way to go for several technical reasons.

Therefore, when you create implementation of it, or make changes to better achieve the givens (the hypothesis), it is extremely hard most of the time to prove you have done that.

However, all you have to do to disprove it is to show one single case where the hypothesis breaks down.

This is the essence of everything I've posted regarding the proposed Plan Berkeley has implemented over at SAH.

I never said that it won't do anything, I am just saying that it won't do what they say it will do to answering the question of intra or inter project parity.

I would like to say to everyone who has contributed to the discussion here so far how gratifying it is to be able to talk about it in an open forum without seeing the word 'banished' popping up all over the place! :-)

It is a tribute to the caliber of every one here at EAH.

Alinator

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