Credit adjustment

RandyC
RandyC
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RE: EDIT: Gary was faster

Message 83817 in response to message 83815

Quote:
EDIT: Gary was faster and more economical in making a reference :-). I hope by rephrasing everything a bit I made it a bit clearer.

You did indeed. The credit adjustment helps a bit too, but it still stings to see a 44% drop in cr/hr/cpu on my Linux system (using SSE2). Windows is worse.

Before the adjustment it was a 55.5% drop.

Seti Classic Final Total: 11446 WU.

Bikeman (Heinz-Bernd Eggenstein)
Bikeman (Heinz-...
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RE: RE: EDIT: Gary was

Message 83818 in response to message 83817

Quote:
Quote:
EDIT: Gary was faster and more economical in making a reference :-). I hope by rephrasing everything a bit I made it a bit clearer.

You did indeed. The credit adjustment helps a bit too, but it still stings to see a 44% drop in cr/hr/cpu on my Linux system (using SSE2). Windows is worse.

Before the adjustment it was a 55.5% drop.

Yeah, ok, but.... during the course of S5R3, beginning from the very first stock app to the latest power apps, we got more than 100% (almost 150% for some platforms) increase in app performance (--> look here)! It happened in many small steps, so it's easy to miss the overall increase in productivity in S5R3 :-) .

CU
Bikeman

RandyC
RandyC
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RE: RE: RE: EDIT: Gary

Message 83819 in response to message 83818

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
EDIT: Gary was faster and more economical in making a reference :-). I hope by rephrasing everything a bit I made it a bit clearer.

You did indeed. The credit adjustment helps a bit too, but it still stings to see a 44% drop in cr/hr/cpu on my Linux system (using SSE2). Windows is worse.

Before the adjustment it was a 55.5% drop.

Yeah, ok, but.... during the course of S5R3, beginning from the very first stock app to the latest power apps, we got more than 100% (almost 150% for some platforms) increase in app performance (--> look here)! It happened in many small steps, so it's easy to miss the overall increase in productivity in S5R3 :-) .

CU
Bikeman

Oh, I understand that fully and I'm not planning on dropping E@H by any means. This has happened at SETI too when they upgraded the stock application with many of the features of the Optimized apps. But the drop in cr/hr still stings.

Seti Classic Final Total: 11446 WU.

Gary Roberts
Gary Roberts
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The credit arguments get a

The credit arguments get a bit tedious after a while with much the same (sometimes dubious) points being hammered home with ever more inventive/dubious analogies. I try to read and understand different people's points of view and I try to keep out of the firing line as much as possible.

I have basically taken the position that, whilst I enjoy boosting my rate of credit generation, if the project decides on a "pay cut", so be it.

I must confess that I don't really understand the need for "cross project parity" which can never be achieved anyway. I also don't understand the need for intra-project parity either for that matter. By that I mean that if credit is boosted by a more optimised app so that the latest run generates more credit per unit of time than the previous one, why do we need to cut it back so that there's no increase at all? Surely we could leave part of the gain in there as a bonus for the participants who spent extra time and energy with the testing of the optimisations?

I don't want to rehash old arguments since it's all been said before but rather I'd like to introduce something a bit different - at least I haven't seen this before. I'm not silly enough to think that this is something entirely new since experience teaches that there is very little that's brand new under the sun. Everything seems to be more or less just a variation on what has happened before. So it won't surprise me in the slightest if someone is able to point to a similar line of thought being advanced in some other project's forum.

Lets compare the BOINC mini-economy to the world economy. Does the world operate on a fixed monetary system or fixed exchange rates? Are the exchange rates that apply today the same as applied a year ago? Do we need to create some artificial system so that the exchange rates in 2009 will be the same as now?

Collecting credits and having credit races is supposed to be fun. Wouldn't it be even more fun to have floating exchange rates and floating rates of inflation/deflation so that the very smart people out there could devise really clever systems of monitoring/measuring/plotting the effects of all this? Once you get rid of the myth of inter-project parity and each project has a "floating currency" that people put time and effort into judging the value of, isn't this more likely to pique the interest of new converts and restore the sense of fun to those who are getting turned off by the artificial, forced adjustments that seem to be ever more frequently hitting us?

People use the argument that if project X pays twice the "going rate", a whole bunch of crunchers will flock to project X to the detriment of other projects. There might be some truth in that if you can get enough people to believe in the "uniform credit value" myth. If you stop promoting the myth and actually promote the reverse, wont people gravitate towards projects that interest them or which have a "quality currency" rather than an inflated one? Won't projects be more able to attract participants on the basis of quality rather than quantity?

I think it's called free enterprise, competition, marketing, capitalism, etc, as opposed to artificial, state-controlled, socialism, collectivism, communism, etc. The history of the 20th century seems to be pretty clear on what the majority of people prefer.

I think it would be a lot of fun and very interesting to find out what would happen in the BOINC world if "State Control" was abolished :-).

Cheers,
Gary.

tullio
tullio
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Interesting idea. Why don't

Interesting idea. Why don't we call the SETI credits US dollars, the Einstein credits euros, the climate credits pounds, etc., and let their values fluctuate as they do in financial markets? We might use BOINC as a model of the globalized economy and, perhaps, get some Nobel prizes to be equally divided among all crunchers on the basis of their accumulated credits. Cheers.
Tullio

Richard Haselgrove
Richard Haselgrove
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RE: I think it would be a

Message 83822 in response to message 83820

Quote:
I think it would be a lot of fun and very interesting to find out what would happen in the BOINC world if "State Control" was abolished :-).


Be careful, Gary, you might get what you wish for! I think it was very instructive in my country to see what happened when "privatisation" released "nationalised industries" from "state control". A number of train crashes, if I remember rightly. The equivalent here might be software bugs. It took quite a lot of cross-project energy and collaboration to solve the app_info.xml problem last week. The more you move towards competition, the more people tend to invoke confidentiality, and the harder it becomes to keep to established standards.

Besides, didn't the free market economy nurture the current credit crunch?

Winterknight
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RE: Interesting idea. Why

Message 83823 in response to message 83821

Quote:
Interesting idea. Why don't we call the SETI credits US dollars, the Einstein credits euros, the climate credits pounds, etc., and let their values fluctuate as they do in financial markets? We might use BOINC as a model of the globalized economy and, perhaps, get some Nobel prizes to be equally divided among all crunchers on the basis of their accumulated credits. Cheers.
Tullio


But how many Seti dollars can I buy with my Climate pounds?
There is AFAIK no trading market.

th3
th3
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Thats all good but i have to

Message 83824 in response to message 83823

Thats all good but i have to protest against SETI using dollars. They are looking for aliens and should use alien currency, for example Kronig (from Tripping The Rift) or gold-pressed Latinum (from ST:DS9, 1 bar = 20 strips = 2000 slips). Hmm, actually they already use alien currency at SETI, iirc the monetary units in Babylon5 and Farscape and some others is just... Credits =)

tullio
tullio
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What about Linden dollars?

What about Linden dollars? They are exchanged at 270 Linden dollars each US dollar in Second Life. But I don't know if the Linden Bank accepts also other currencies and I am not a member of Second Life.
Tullio

Phil
Phil
Joined: 24 Feb 05
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RE: I don't know if the

Message 83826 in response to message 83825

Quote:
I don't know if the Linden Bank accepts also other currencies and I am not a member of Second Life.
Tullio

Not these days - theres a Credit-Crunchâ„¢

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