I would be VERY surprised if the app_config goes away at least in the near future. It provides additional valuable utility such as max concurrent WUs for CPU tasks and the ability to set CPU usage for GPU tasks. In most cases it eliminates the need for an app_info. It's hard to take away features once they're provided. I think you'd hear wailing from here to Zanzibar if the app_config disappeared.
David Anderson, in email to Rom, Charlie and me wrote:
I view the app_config feature as a temporary thing while projects learn how to parametrize their GPU apps.
I would be willing to bet money that it will not go away unless the whole BOINC paradigm changes dramatically. I believe David created it as a response to the ongoing requests of some of us on the mailing lists asking for such features. It is an appreciated addition and addresses issues far beyond the simple "GPU utilization factor of BRP apps" that Einstein offers on the preference page. Thanks David!
I would be willing to bet money that it will not go away unless the whole BOINC paradigm changes dramatically.
Hmmm.... remember how the Messages tab went away and in its place there was an Event Log? Remember how many people screamed (and threatened) about that, and did it ever change back? ;)
I would be willing to bet money that it will not go away unless the whole BOINC paradigm changes dramatically.
Hmmm.... remember how the Messages tab went away and in its place there was an Event Log? Remember how many people screamed (and threatened) about that, and did it ever change back? ;)
Very different, that didn't reduce functionality. I believe David added all the functionality of the app_config for a reason. One reason was to address the requests for a way to limit the number of concurrent tasks from demanding projects such as Lattice and Yoyo ECM (to name just a couple). Just saying, I don't think it's going away unless a better way is found to include the same or more functionality.
What model of PC is it? I seem to recall you saying it's a Dell, which may mean it does not have any suitable expansion slots for a new video card.
Look at her version of Boinc! It is 6.8.44, it seems to be working but GOOD GRIEF that is old!!!
Fadedrose I am amazed that that version is even still allowed, it is easy to upgrade if you choose, BUT before doing so you will want to set all your projects to no new tasks, then after all the units are gone do the upgrade. Going from version 6 to the newest release version, which is 7.0.64, is a huge change and most units won't transfer, meaning they will just crash.
Mikey,
It's great that you want to help people by responding to queries in the forums, but how helpful is it, really, if you give out misleading information?
Jord has already corrected you about the BOINC version, but you also need to understand that the other advice in the above quote (about how tasks will crash) is also wrong. It's really unhelpful to inexperienced people when you make sweeping statements like this that have no basis in fact.
Have you ever actually done a BOINC upgrade and witnessed the new version trash all the 'old version' tasks in the cache of work? Or have you ever seen a reliable report that this has happened to someone else? I can't recall seeing such a report. People do trash the tasks in their cache from time to time but not just from simply upgrading to a new version of BOINC.
The fact is that BOINC is deliberately designed so that an upgrade is very quick and reliable, without having to drain the existing cache of work first. Here are the steps involved.
* Stop the old version that is currently running.
* Install the new version 'over the top' without touching any existing files.
* Re-start BOINC.
All the existing tasks in the cache will be found and crunching will continue exactly from where the old version left things. Of course, this simple procedure may have extra steps if special requirements (like moving the BOINC data directory to a non-default location, for example) need to be done as part of the upgrade.
Many people who rarely or never post here do lurk on these message boards. Some would be looking for advice on how to run BOINC and the various projects they are interested in. They don't necessarily have the knowledge to separate fact from fiction in what they read. If you want to give advice that you are not absolutely certain about, at least put in a caveat of some sort so that the reader understands the situation.
For example, instead of saying, "... most units wont transfer, meaning they will just crash", you could actually say, "I'm not really sure how this would go. Perhaps you need to get advice about this in case the upgrade might cause your existing tasks to crash". At least someone else can then come along and point out that there is no problem with losing tasks during a normal upgrade.
It's really unhelpful to inexperienced people when you make sweeping statements like this that have no basis in fact.
I agree, but I think mikey just confused upgrading and downgrading, as it is indeed not trivial to return form a version-7 BOINC installation to a previous one. :-)
Gruß,
Gundolf
Computer sind nicht alles im Leben. (Kleiner Scherz)
I would be willing to bet money that it will not go away unless the whole BOINC paradigm changes dramatically.
Hmmm.... remember how the Messages tab went away and in its place there was an Event Log? Remember how many people screamed (and threatened) about that, and did it ever change back? ;)
Very different, that didn't reduce functionality. I believe David added all the functionality of the app_config for a reason. One reason was to address the requests for a way to limit the number of concurrent tasks from demanding projects such as Lattice and Yoyo ECM (to name just a couple). Just saying, I don't think it's going away unless a better way is found to include the same or more functionality.
IIRC, the app_config.xml mechanism was designed and introduced at the specific request of World Community Grid - some of their sub-projects use so many resources that they swamp the host if multiple copies are allowed to run.
WCG is a big enough project that the functionality won't be allowed to disappear while they still need it, even if the method of delivery changes over time.
What model of PC is it? I seem to recall you saying it's a Dell, which may mean it does not have any suitable expansion slots for a new video card.
Look at her version of Boinc! It is 6.8.44, it seems to be working but GOOD GRIEF that is old!!!
Fadedrose I am amazed that that version is even still allowed, it is easy to upgrade if you choose, BUT before doing so you will want to set all your projects to no new tasks, then after all the units are gone do the upgrade. Going from version 6 to the newest release version, which is 7.0.64, is a huge change and most units won't transfer, meaning they will just crash.
Mikey,
It's great that you want to help people by responding to queries in the forums, but how helpful is it, really, if you give out misleading information?
Jord has already corrected you about the BOINC version, but you also need to understand that the other advice in the above quote (about how tasks will crash) is also wrong. It's really unhelpful to inexperienced people when you make sweeping statements like this that have no basis in fact.
Have you ever actually done a BOINC upgrade and witnessed the new version trash all the 'old version' tasks in the cache of work? Or have you ever seen a reliable report that this has happened to someone else? I can't recall seeing such a report. People do trash the tasks in their cache from time to time but not just from simply upgrading to a new version of BOINC.
The fact is that BOINC is deliberately designed so that an upgrade is very quick and reliable, without having to drain the existing cache of work first. Here are the steps involved.
* Stop the old version that is currently running.
* Install the new version 'over the top' without touching any existing files.
* Re-start BOINC.
All the existing tasks in the cache will be found and crunching will continue exactly from where the old version left things. Of course, this simple procedure may have extra steps if special requirements (like moving the BOINC data directory to a non-default location, for example) need to be done as part of the upgrade.
Many people who rarely or never post here do lurk on these message boards. Some would be looking for advice on how to run BOINC and the various projects they are interested in. They don't necessarily have the knowledge to separate fact from fiction in what they read. If you want to give advice that you are not absolutely certain about, at least put in a caveat of some sort so that the reader understands the situation.
For example, instead of saying, "... most units wont transfer, meaning they will just crash", you could actually say, "I'm not really sure how this would go. Perhaps you need to get advice about this in case the upgrade might cause your existing tasks to crash". At least someone else can then come along and point out that there is no problem with losing tasks during a normal upgrade.
The only comment I would make is if you had said these 3 days ago it might have been better received! This thread started on the 4th of May, I posted my above comment on the 6th, here is it is the 9th and NOW you yell at me for giving bad info. YES I was mistaken,I have been before and WILL be again I am human!, but where were you on the 4th? Ageless and I have been attempting to help this lady since the 4th, now YOU come in on the 9th and say 'mikey is wrong', okay I AM wrong, but wouldn't it have been better to instead start helping the lady on the 4th and NEVER let me get to the point of making a misstatement?
I am VERY disappointed at your tact and approach in this! Heck I can ALWAYS be right 5 days after things start happening, let me think who will win the Kentucky Derby...ummm I think Orb WILL WIN!!! Put your money on that horse and you will make money in the Kentucky Derby!! As a former Forum Moderator myself, elsewhere, I know it can be tough, but to come in 5 days after things have been going and then to take a snippet of a conversation and correct the poster, IN PUBLIC, is not an ideal situation IMO! I DO have the ability to read pm's, yet this is where you chose to post. I am guessing Rose is just soooo happy she will get to read our comments!
Jord thanks for the info, I have ALWAYS learned lots from you!!
Rose take care and keep on crunching!!
Gary I have detached ALL of my pc's and deleted those I was able to, thanks for your support! :-(((
Dimension 9150, mfrd 032906 - It just had its 7th birthday.!!
And was looking for something in "help," and one of the "warnings" said that Automatic Updates will end for this pc next year.
The "automatic updates" are probably for Windows XP; I expect there'll be plenty of people using Windows XP even after automatic updates stop!
The Dell Dimension 9150 (aka XPS400) looks fine for a GPU upgrade. According to the manuals on the Dell website, it has an expansion slot that's perfectly suitable for a GPU card and enough spare power to drive it as well. At the bottom end even a GPU like a 9600GT or GTS250 (dirt cheap on eBay) could get you as much as 10,000 credits/day.
Technical details for those helping with suggestions: The Dell 9150/XPS500 uses the Intel 945p chipset, has a PCIe 1.0 x16 slot (as well as x4 and x1 slots), and a 375W PSU. The existing video card looks likely to be an ATI X300 in the x16 slot.
Quote:
My main worry with the system I have now is will it blow up without GPU? The shop where I get my work done also sells used computers, and it might be cheaper to get a new old one for $129.00 than take this one in and get it worked on. They generally get them from offices where they're gently used.
The computer itself is fine - some of my hosts are even older. The catch with the office PC's is that they are unlikely to have a usable GPU in them - so either way you'll probably need to buy a GPU and have it fitted.
I can't help you, but I feel guilty that your question was lost in the thread because of my "old" boinc number. Sorry about that.
Did you ever get guidance in selecting some tasks that use only CPU and how to switch over? I think somebody recommended something you should do, and wondered if you went ahead and did it...just curious..
RE: RE: I would be VERY
)
AARRRRGGGGHHHHH! It figures, well I hope we don't lose functionality in the process.
Thanks Jord!!
RE: RE: I would be VERY
)
I would be willing to bet money that it will not go away unless the whole BOINC paradigm changes dramatically. I believe David created it as a response to the ongoing requests of some of us on the mailing lists asking for such features. It is an appreciated addition and addresses issues far beyond the simple "GPU utilization factor of BRP apps" that Einstein offers on the preference page. Thanks David!
RE: I would be willing to
)
Hmmm.... remember how the Messages tab went away and in its place there was an Event Log? Remember how many people screamed (and threatened) about that, and did it ever change back? ;)
RE: RE: I would be
)
Very different, that didn't reduce functionality. I believe David added all the functionality of the app_config for a reason. One reason was to address the requests for a way to limit the number of concurrent tasks from demanding projects such as Lattice and Yoyo ECM (to name just a couple). Just saying, I don't think it's going away unless a better way is found to include the same or more functionality.
RE: RE: What model of PC
)
Mikey,
It's great that you want to help people by responding to queries in the forums, but how helpful is it, really, if you give out misleading information?
Jord has already corrected you about the BOINC version, but you also need to understand that the other advice in the above quote (about how tasks will crash) is also wrong. It's really unhelpful to inexperienced people when you make sweeping statements like this that have no basis in fact.
Have you ever actually done a BOINC upgrade and witnessed the new version trash all the 'old version' tasks in the cache of work? Or have you ever seen a reliable report that this has happened to someone else? I can't recall seeing such a report. People do trash the tasks in their cache from time to time but not just from simply upgrading to a new version of BOINC.
The fact is that BOINC is deliberately designed so that an upgrade is very quick and reliable, without having to drain the existing cache of work first. Here are the steps involved.
* Install the new version 'over the top' without touching any existing files.
* Re-start BOINC.
All the existing tasks in the cache will be found and crunching will continue exactly from where the old version left things. Of course, this simple procedure may have extra steps if special requirements (like moving the BOINC data directory to a non-default location, for example) need to be done as part of the upgrade.
Many people who rarely or never post here do lurk on these message boards. Some would be looking for advice on how to run BOINC and the various projects they are interested in. They don't necessarily have the knowledge to separate fact from fiction in what they read. If you want to give advice that you are not absolutely certain about, at least put in a caveat of some sort so that the reader understands the situation.
For example, instead of saying, "... most units wont transfer, meaning they will just crash", you could actually say, "I'm not really sure how this would go. Perhaps you need to get advice about this in case the upgrade might cause your existing tasks to crash". At least someone else can then come along and point out that there is no problem with losing tasks during a normal upgrade.
Cheers,
Gary.
RE: It's really unhelpful
)
I agree, but I think mikey just confused upgrading and downgrading, as it is indeed not trivial to return form a version-7 BOINC installation to a previous one. :-)
Gruß,
Gundolf
Computer sind nicht alles im Leben. (Kleiner Scherz)
RE: RE: RE: I would be
)
IIRC, the app_config.xml mechanism was designed and introduced at the specific request of World Community Grid - some of their sub-projects use so many resources that they swamp the host if multiple copies are allowed to run.
WCG is a big enough project that the functionality won't be allowed to disappear while they still need it, even if the method of delivery changes over time.
RE: RE: RE: What model
)
The only comment I would make is if you had said these 3 days ago it might have been better received! This thread started on the 4th of May, I posted my above comment on the 6th, here is it is the 9th and NOW you yell at me for giving bad info. YES I was mistaken,I have been before and WILL be again I am human!, but where were you on the 4th? Ageless and I have been attempting to help this lady since the 4th, now YOU come in on the 9th and say 'mikey is wrong', okay I AM wrong, but wouldn't it have been better to instead start helping the lady on the 4th and NEVER let me get to the point of making a misstatement?
I am VERY disappointed at your tact and approach in this! Heck I can ALWAYS be right 5 days after things start happening, let me think who will win the Kentucky Derby...ummm I think Orb WILL WIN!!! Put your money on that horse and you will make money in the Kentucky Derby!! As a former Forum Moderator myself, elsewhere, I know it can be tough, but to come in 5 days after things have been going and then to take a snippet of a conversation and correct the poster, IN PUBLIC, is not an ideal situation IMO! I DO have the ability to read pm's, yet this is where you chose to post. I am guessing Rose is just soooo happy she will get to read our comments!
Jord thanks for the info, I have ALWAYS learned lots from you!!
Rose take care and keep on crunching!!
Gary I have detached ALL of my pc's and deleted those I was able to, thanks for your support! :-(((
RE: Dimension 9150, mfrd
)
The "automatic updates" are probably for Windows XP; I expect there'll be plenty of people using Windows XP even after automatic updates stop!
The Dell Dimension 9150 (aka XPS400) looks fine for a GPU upgrade. According to the manuals on the Dell website, it has an expansion slot that's perfectly suitable for a GPU card and enough spare power to drive it as well. At the bottom end even a GPU like a 9600GT or GTS250 (dirt cheap on eBay) could get you as much as 10,000 credits/day.
Technical details for those helping with suggestions: The Dell 9150/XPS500 uses the Intel 945p chipset, has a PCIe 1.0 x16 slot (as well as x4 and x1 slots), and a 375W PSU. The existing video card looks likely to be an ATI X300 in the x16 slot.
The computer itself is fine - some of my hosts are even older. The catch with the office PC's is that they are unlikely to have a usable GPU in them - so either way you'll probably need to buy a GPU and have it fitted.
I can't help you, but I feel
)
I can't help you, but I feel guilty that your question was lost in the thread because of my "old" boinc number. Sorry about that.
Did you ever get guidance in selecting some tasks that use only CPU and how to switch over? I think somebody recommended something you should do, and wondered if you went ahead and did it...just curious..